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Currently, not one (genuinely) of their players are of Premier League standard. They are either kidding themselves, don't watch games or are just clueless. They say Le Fee, for one they were slagging him of during periods of last season, and two, he was signed by Roma last summer, played very limited minutes and then was shipped off four months later, as they obviously didn't think he was good enough. They didn't learn from the Clark situation, when they were stating he was worth £40 million, and yet didn't even get half of that amount. They have already lost two players and yet have had to spend roughly £25 million, to sign Le Fee and pay Birmingham 15%, so impacting on the fees received. I'll be staggered currently, if they actually didn't beat Derby's record total. Got nothing to do with me hating the cunts, they are a nowhere near even a top Championship team, never mind one who can even attempt to compete in the Premier League. They're not going to spend a fortune, as that's not the current club model of signing cheap and then hopefully sell on with a decent profit. They were pretty lucky to get up from the play offs and finished 24 points behind Burnley and Leeds. I fully expect fans to have some hope, but these thick fuckers are genuinely talking about staying up comfortably (even mid table according to some) and spending up to £100 million in the transfer market. I'll not even go on about the stadium extension, one of the most laughable threads, concerning a club who will be back in the Championship this time next year, have crowds half of their capacity for midweek games, and have an ownership, which aren't going to spend a decent amount of money, on something not required. They are in for a massive wake up call this season coming. The league is on a different level to the last time they stank the place out. They are favourites to finish 20th and there's nothing to suggest they won't, and by quite a margin also.

With my negative hat on, he could struggle with fatigue/injuries next year, especially if getting flogged with all the extra games if we haven't signed an adequate Wilson replacement. Could also be a scenario where it becomes public that he has refused a new contract. Which will sour abit of his relationship with fans and like Gordon last year, you will get a whole load of body language experts suddenly jumping on him and claiming he's not trying anymore etc. Then if we finish lower in the table, miss out on CL and don't win anything. Then with only two years left, and perhaps with less impressive stats due to a drop in performance levels, his value will drop considerably from where it is now. On the more positive flip side, he might be able to recover his injury problems with a good summer off, come back fit and raring to go and continuing to involve into the elite player he has been. Then maybe we do somehow boost the squad and have the depth required to give next season a real go and helps us kick on to the next level and he then signs a new deal and wants to stay and win things with us.

He had a stinker that day. Fought someone for the penalty then missed. That was the end of him as a useful player. Bit weak mentally I guess.

The American chancers brought them down but Liverpool have always been and will always be a massive football institution especially by UK standards. So revenue is the metric to judge now? Arsenal 7 major honors in the same time period... and they are also a massive institution. Highbury was an unreal ground behind the scenes in it's day but they are still smaller than Liverpool. In grates typing this born in the 70's so lived through the Liverpool love in from Paisley onwards and despise them more than any other club apart from the unwashed down the road but you can't ever say they've been anything other than a big club since Shankly and their first influx of cash

Managers will be too savvy these days and know that if you score early there (and there will be opportunities), that place turns toxic sharply and you can score a second before HT and coast to three points. I haven’t got a list of all the managers in the Premier League the last time they were there but I bet there was a right load of shite at some of the clubs. The standard is significantly higher now.

I also have a vague memory of Nickson being responsible for identifying Minteh despite Ashworth getting credit for it too.

Madrid looked weird. I’m used to seeing 2 players on the LW just trying to make something happen. It might take some time for the players to get used to this type of structure.

Agree with all of that. But Le Bris will be gone before even we play them imo, they're very quick to bin off managers. A few bad results and they'll be frothing at the mouth for him to fuck off and to bring in Big Sam to save them. There was a call for him to go before the playoffs on RTG, man. At best they'll finish 19th with about 26pts I reckon.

This is very good news. We need to continue to aim to bring in promising young players. Good to know they were Nickson moves.

Bookies are leaning that way heavily. It isn't just our bias.

I think people predicting them to finish with a record low number of points are off tbh. Their football is way more suited to a PL relegation battle than Southampton, who came up and tried to play football or Sheffield United who were completely figured out under Wilder and he couldn't adapt. They sit in deep and hit teams on the break at pace. That alone will allow them to pick up results here and there. I think Le Bris fairly tactically astute too. Not that they'll stay up like, they'll go down without too much of a fight imo but I don't think it'll be an embarrassment.

Akliouche was Monaco's player of the season? Ekitike ironically is a good case in point, by your own affirmation had a sensational season and is valued at just over £70m which includes a premium as a striker and yet is valued around Pedro's range...what's his value going to be should he replicate that in the PL? As for flipping lesser known talent into high value sales being rare? Well, isnt that exactly what alot of Europe do? Milan, Dortmund, RB, the big Portugal sides, Lyon, Napoli, Lille, Atlanta to name a few, add Brighton, Brentford and even Bournemouth to the mix if you like and you have a significant number of excellent clubs who are consistently identifying undervalued talent, developing them and turning them over for significant sums of money which in most cases are still under their actual value.

It was also a gamble by a club facing low stakes. Finish anywhere from 9th in the league to 17th and it doesn't matter. Its important for us to be in the CL. Dropping one never mind two places is not an option.

Aye, Liverpool were very much a 'cup' team in my life (36) until Klopp imo. They had the odd flirt with the title under Benitez & famously with Rodgers. The Klopp appointment changed everything there for sure & it just shows what the right appointment can do for a club. They're an absolute monster now, like they were before my day - or so me fatha tells me. But that's only really changed in the last decade I reckon, even under Rodgers in 2014 the consensus was that they were massively overachieving.

I hear you but that could apply to every potential signing which makes it a mostly redundant point (unless it's clearly apparent as it is with some players) I can only judge on talent

Pre-FSG - they were a long way away from the revenues of Arsenal and Man U. Didn't maximise their global reach. FSG have realised Liverpool's potential as a properly elite club. There was 20-30% of unrealised potential for 30-odd years.

After last summer and what came out afterwards, I can fully believe it tbh.

The Stack extension being reported in the Chronicle now, and was hoping the Stadium Truth would have Emerged and Spoke Volumes about the Plans that will Surprise You. But alas nothing

I'm not saying they'll stay up, just saying I fancy them to get a result against West Ham.

Of course strange results can occasionally happen but recently even teams which have been promoted automatically, on merit over the season, have struggled terribly to bridge the huge gap in quality. Sunderland finished 24 points behind the automatic places and 16 behind the team in third position. In both play off ties the other teams looked better than them, but they somehow fluked it, assisted massively by horrendous errors which led to them scoring. They may fluke a win against West Ham as well but their players are light years away from being PL standard.

It does just sound like after missing out on Freedman, Eales went to a mate and asked for a favour, without really considering the ramifications.

It's definitely a game you'd want to kick off a gruelling season, but as I said yesterday I wouldn't be surprised if West Ham won at a bit of a canter. The most talented 11 players on the pitch will all be West Ham players, that's a fact. Anything can happen in a one-off game, but the gulf in quality is still absolutely massive. With the exception of maybe Leeds & Burnley - and despite what the mackems might tell you - there isn't 1 sunderland player that would start for any other Premier League side. They will strengthen for sure, but as will everybody else. If anything it would be quite funny to watch them get giddy from beating West Ham & how this PL is 'easy marra', only to be sick of their lives by the time we roll into town in December. They're priced at 2/9 with Paddy Power to be relegated. I've looked for a while but can't find any odds to stay up, but I will be interested to see what they're priced as. You have to go back to 2013 to find a side that's been promoted with less points than sunderland achieved last year. I know it's all relative based on the performance of the other teams in the league, but they're a poor side who will be lucky to get anywhere near 40pts. I'm sure I read they only won 5 or so games by more than 1 goal, which is quite telling.

If Dan was a rat, what is Mitchell? Feel like this has been the sum total of his efforts

Now it does or at least will from August. How many of the past 20yrs has Paris had more than PSG in the top flight.

Annoying as it is as we strive to catch up no point worrying about it. I’ve always believed he will stay this summer and either sign a new contract end of the window when he’s seen who’ve we’ve signed or the club starts a bidding war if they feel they need to next summer with 2 years left on contract. As long as it attitude and application are good I couldn’t see us losing much value even with 12 months on his contract. Just gambling on a contract run down when that close. His current contract puts the power in our hands rather than him and his agents with no buyout clause. Extending and adding one wouldn’t necessarily be to our benefit unless the figure is £160+m as you’ve the barometer of Wirtz deal now to compare and contrast against.