Steve McClaren

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I remember reading something when Rafa was at Liverpool that he couldn't rely on Gerrard to hold down a position he just kept wandering out of position so he just gave him a free role in the team

 

Rafa moved him to the right of midfield which Gerrard didn't like but he had his most productive season in that position since he emerged at Liverpool.

 

Gerrard was a tactical nightmare. Shelvey has that side of Gerrard's game with less ability and mobility.

 

Gerrard was a great player, but as you said tactically he wasn't the best and I always considered his technique suspect at times as well. He often over ran the ball when running with it for example and that meant he was charging around after it, tackling into players etc. which looked good on MOTD, but it was to the detriment of his all-round game. I think its an English disease, we like to run with the ball, but don't seem to have much control over it. Barkley is similar and Oxlade-Chamberlain at Arsenal. They just need to relax more. Now compare the likes of Scholes and Lampard on the ball and when moving with it. Different players of course, but far more technical.

[Mole_Toonfan]

HTT

 

Especially on the whole English players stuff, football intelligence wise most of the players that come through are very thick.

 

Even if they are technically and physically gifted, they don't make the smartest decisions over the last 20 years or so.

 

I really do wonder what the coaches are teaching these players at youth level tbh.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

HTT

 

Especially on the whole English players stuff, football intelligence wise most of the players that come through are very thick.

 

Even if they are technically and physically gifted, they don't make the smartest decisions over the last 20 years or so.

 

I really do wonder what the coaches are teaching these players at youth level tbh.

 

We like our players to run around, to bust a gut, to get stuck in, to win, to battle hard etc. and its something we drill into our kids as parents, as coaches, as fans and as managers when they turn pro. Its something we deem as important or even more important than skill and technique.

 

Gazza was the same by the way, that's why he had those injuries. He would over run the ball, as he did against Germany in the Semi at Italia 90 that got him his booking. And he was gifted technically and skillfully and massively so. But tactically he lacked brains and his decision making was very poor at times for someone as gifted as he was. That said, it is every English player's DNA to charge around, to get stuck in, to be brave, to put a tackle in. That's our game in a nutshell, with skill and technique coming secondary.

 

 

[mozy]

I read an article the other day about Italian managers and the way they are taught, it contained numerous quotes highlighting the importance of teaching the player to make the right decision under pressure. There's no way our young players can be receiving that kind of coaching.

[TRon]

I read an article the other day about Italian managers and the way they are taught, it contained numerous quotes highlighting the importance of teaching the player to make the right decision under pressure. There's no way our young players can be receiving that kind of coaching.

 

That's because it's pointless when our game is played at 100mph and refs are encouraged to be lenient because it's 'a man's game'. You can do that for 12 yr olds maybe, but once kids start maturing, the club coaches are going to want players who can stand up to a physical battering. If you watch football played on the continent it's a totally different game with players bringing the ball out under almost no pressure until they reach the opposition half.

[Killuminati]

So, Steve McClaren essentially got told how the opposition and Twente were going to play by the 21 year old captain and the coaching staff. Just happened to coincide with the biggest success of his career.......

Now to the curious question  Who was this 21 year old captain?

[triggs]

I read an article the other day about Italian managers and the way they are taught, it contained numerous quotes highlighting the importance of teaching the player to make the right decision under pressure. There's no way our young players can be receiving that kind of coaching.

 

That's because it's pointless when our game is played at 100mph and refs are encouraged to be lenient because it's 'a man's game'. You can do that for 12 yr olds maybe, but once kids start maturing, the club coaches are going to want players who can stand up to a physical battering. If you watch football played on the continent it's a totally different game with players bringing the ball out under almost no pressure until they reach the opposition half.

Surely that would make it even more important in the PL?

[The College Dropout]

I remember reading something when Rafa was at Liverpool that he couldn't rely on Gerrard to hold down a position he just kept wandering out of position so he just gave him a free role in the team

 

Rafa moved him to the right of midfield which Gerrard didn't like but he had his most productive season in that position since he emerged at Liverpool.

 

Gerrard was a tactical nightmare. Shelvey has that side of Gerrard's game with less ability and mobility.

 

Gerrard was a great player, but as you said tactically he wasn't the best and I always considered his technique suspect at times as well. He often over ran the ball when running with it for example and that meant he was charging around after it, tackling into players etc. which looked good on MOTD, but it was to the detriment of his all-round game. I think its an English disease, we like to run with the ball, but don't seem to have much control over it. Barkley is similar and Oxlade-Chamberlain at Arsenal. They just need to relax more. Now compare the likes of Scholes and Lampard on the ball and when moving with it. Different players of course, but far more technical.

 

Agreed, the issue is also off the ball and general football intelligence. It speaks to the understanding English players have of the game and their education. Cabaye has no more ability and barely anymore mobility than Shelvey but he thinks quicker on and off the ball. His positioning, tracking runners etc is much better. Someone like Santi Cazorla (or Giggs, Scholes tbf) can play a majority or a lot of their career out wide, second striker, #10 then play CM at a very high level. The ability is there of course but so is the mental know-how. The understanding of the game.

 

We produce very few intelligent players and we often don't rate the ones we have. Players are encouraged to play with little discipline. Ramsey in Spain would be a totally different player - he had the skillset for a really cultured game but the focus on goals and assists for a cm has made him a different (liability) of a CM. I've said it before but playing in England at a pivotal age meant Fabregas couldn't play the Barca style. Another one - off the ball nightmare. It's generally ok as Cesc Fabregas but for the average English clogger - not so much.

[mighty__mag]

So, Steve McClaren essentially got told how the opposition and Twente were going to play by the 21 year old captain and the coaching staff. Just happened to coincide with the biggest success of his career.......

Now to the curious question  Who was this 21 year old captain?

 

Likely it could have been Douglas who was 21 or so at the time. He was not captain of the 2008/9 side though.

[Killuminati]

So, Steve McClaren essentially got told how the opposition and Twente were going to play by the 21 year old captain and the coaching staff. Just happened to coincide with the biggest success of his career.......

Now to the curious question  Who was this 21 year old captain?

 

Likely it could have been Douglas who was 21 or so at the time. He was not captain of the 2008/9 side though.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

Not really sure what the story is there like.

 

A coaching team informs a manager of how the other team is likely to set up. I mean, that's just normal practice isn't it? Shock horror that McClaren assigned some of his staff to work on how the opposition play.

 

The captain part is a nothing story too, of course someone who has played regularly in that league will share information to the manager who is from a different country. I mean, I'm sure John Terry may occasionally tell Conte how English teams are likely to set up.

[54]

Apparently joining Maccabi Tel Aviv as a coaching consultant.

[levelsevenlee]

Apparently joining Maccabi Tel Aviv as a coaching consultant.

 

I shall watch their plummet down the leagues with interest

[Yorkie]

Was our manager.

[U2]

Carver went to Cyprus and fucked up there.

 

McClaren went to Derby fucked up and now he's about to fuck up with Maccabi.

 

The state of the managers, sorry I mean head coaches, appointed by those gastropods running the club.

[U2]

Gotta remember that Benitez approached the club and not the other way round.  Not in a million years would egg and fatter egg have gone after a coach in Rafa's league.

[krybel]

Gotta remember that Benitez approached the club and not the other way round.  Not in a million years would egg and fatter egg have gone after a coach in Rafa's league.

 

Is that true?

[Guest neesy111]

I'm not sure that's correct.  Apparently there had been some contact between the parties for a few weeks before McClaren was binned.

[UncleBingo]

Apparently joining Maccabi Tel Aviv as a coaching consultant.

 

Eagerly awaiting his spin on a Jewish accent for shure.

[HawK]

Gotta remember that Benitez approached the club and not the other way round.  Not in a million years would egg and fatter egg have gone after a coach in Rafa's league.

 

Is that true?

 

Yes

[U2]

I'm not sure that's correct.  Apparently there had been some contact between the parties for a few weeks before McClaren was binned.

 

I've read it somewhere, possibly a Louise Taylor article? 

[LV]

Gotta remember that Benitez approached the club and not the other way round.  Not in a million years would egg and fatter egg have gone after a coach in Rafa's league.

 

I think that is true. The reports that I read were that Rafa approached us. As if Charnley would have the foresight to approach Rafa. Ashley probably didn't even know who Rafa is.

[HaydnNUFC]

Why on earth didn't we bin this c*** after the 5-1 Chelsea mauling. Almost 3 weeks to prepare for 2 winnable games in Stoke away and Bournemouth at home at a training camp would've been perfect for Rafa...mongs.

[timeEd32]

Why on earth didn't we bin this c*** after the 5-1 Chelsea mauling. Almost 3 weeks to prepare for 2 winnable games in Stoke away and Bournemouth at home at a training camp would've been perfect for Rafa...mongs.

 

Think it's Charnley's worst decision (that we know about). We probably would have stayed up.

[Nobody]

He turned us down several times before he joined us as well :lol: