ponsaelius Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Leave his comfort zone and prove it elsewhere. Most players look good at Barcelona. ..but that good? He's obviously brilliant but his team mates are big factors in his stats looking so good. He's a cog in a system, but he's the most important and best cog in that system. I'd say he does more to make his teamates look good than they do to make him look better. I remember 2 seasons ago when Barca won the treble, the talk was how good his right sided combination was with Alves. He's a different player to what he was just 2 years ago, he plays far more centrally and much deeper. He's influencing the game more as a whole and thats why he's racking up assists on top of ridiculous amounts of goals. As far as I'm concerned he's not just the most natrually talented player I've ever seen, he's also the most complete player I've ever seen. Many people don't realise how good of a playmaker he actually is, on top of his dribbling and finishing his passing and vision is on level with anybody other than maybe ZIdane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (remember my age, I was never old enough to witness Maradona, Best, Cruyff etc at their peaks) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I can't speak for most of the players on that list either, but at this point he does look better than Zidane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Pele, Best (G), Ronaldo (fat), Maradona, Zidane, Eusébio, Beckenbauer, Cruyff I know he played bad against A.Villa but a bit petty missing Barton off that list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I'm not sure really, I think he needs to win a world cup before he will be considered up there with most of those. Might have to move away from spain too, those greats often showed there class in more that 1 league... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I can only go off highlight reels and games here and there for past players. But Messi is just ridiculous, already. Keep it up and I imagine he'll be the best ever if he keeps it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 but at this point he does look better than Zidane. I would say so, definitely. Zidane seemed to turn up when he fancied it and didn't get nearly as many goals. Messi is a monster of consistency. Edit: just checked his stats, and I know it wasn't his main job but still Zidane only managed double figures in league goals once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 In terms of controlling games, I don't think he's the most influential Barcelona player - I think Iniesta is. [/tin hat] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 In terms of controlling games, I don't think he's the most influential Barcelona player - I think Iniesta is. [/tin hat] I'd say Xavi is far more important than Iniesta in terms of controlling the game. Iniesta does his thing further up the pitch than Xavi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 To each their own Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Yup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 In terms of controlling games, I don't think he's the most influential Barcelona player - I think Iniesta is. [/tin hat] not even the 2nd most influential...Xavi is number one there i think. Messi is perhaps a bit less influential in terms of controlling and dictating games than the likes of maradona or zidane, and even as you say, someone like iniesta or xavi. it's probably this that makes people slightly hesitant about labelling him the best ever. he's definitely up there, but he has to start turning up for Argentina for the south americans to really buy into him. being argentina's fulcrum at the upcoming copa america would be a good start. but in terms of talent, and end product, he's up there with the best who have ever played football, easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Yup. No, not at all. I want to see each of you enforce your opinions on each other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Pele, Maradona and Zidane were all key in winning World Cups for their country. Regardless of what stature the competition holds, I think Messi has to do similar for Argentina, definitely for him to be recognised among that group by the media etc. However in my lifetime, he's definitely up with fat Ronaldo and Zidane already as one of, if not the best and most complete player I've seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The World Cup argument is stupid. His ability is there for all to see, regardless of what medals he's won. Djimi Traore has won the Champions League, does that make him one of football's great left backs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 In my lifetime, he is the best for me. I'm 25. I always find it difficult to compare him to the older players because I've not seen them enough though but to consistently do what he is doing he must surely be comparable regardless of world cup exploits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Xavi obviously isn't a bad shout Difficult to quantify something like control and I'm tired as feck, but I've often found "greatest footballers" to be synonymous with who can control/dominate games - which gives the edge somewhat to midfielders, than say goalkeepers or full-backs or what have you... Messi would be third in the Barcelona team in these stakes IMO. I used to find it pejorative when people spoke of Romario as one of the greatest finishers instead of greatest players, but looking back at old games, he didn't dominate games as a younger Ankdh remembered! Would love to see him play for a different club side, preferably in a different league. He'd probably be fantastic, but doubt we'll find out until he's past his prime (if then!). Apart from that pipedream, all we have is Messi, Argentina and something we may never know, sadly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 He's the best I've seen, without doubt now. Always said it was Zidane but he's surpassed him already. Incredible player, everything looks far too easy for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The World Cup argument is stupid. His ability is there for all to see, regardless of what medals he's won. Djimi Traore has won the Champions League, does that make him one of football's great left backs? It's make or break. See Baggio, R. 1994 Had Italy won that penalty shoot-out then he'd be on everyone's list. He dragged them to the Final then put one over the bar and they lost. Had they won it.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roy the Irish Magpie Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 the guy is better than zidane, enough said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The Champions League has now eclipsed the World Cup in importance, so I don't see winning the WC as the barometer. We live in a world where people will always want to be contrare, so its difficult for him - especially as we look to the past with rose-tinted glasses. The regularity that Barca are on TV means we see mistakes (as rare as they are) that just wouldn't happen with a Pele or Di Stefano. I think he's in that upper echelon already, along with Pele, Maradona and Di Stefano (never understood the Zidane hype). To get it in the bag he just needs to keep this up for 2-3 more years and not fade away Ronaldo-style. Messi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Yup. No, not at all. I want to see each of you enforce your opinions on each other. Clueless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The World Cup Final is still the pinnacle imo. Always will be. It's the biggest stage, the biggest showcase and the tournament that defines the sport and the people who play it. If one player can lead/inspire his team-mates to win it despite being an inferior 'team' then he'll go down as a legend. Don't get me wrong, Messi is the most talented footballer on the planet at the minute and he's awesome. But to reach the elite of the sport he needs to produce it in the World Cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 He'll have a lot better chance in International football now Argentina aren't managed by a man that makes Joe Kinnear look competent and rational. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Wouldn't go that far, like. Maradona may rate Jonas but Kinnear though Owen was 'one of the best players in the world'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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