madras Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I wouldn't say Ginola played anywhere near as deep as Ben Arfa has been in a 4-4-2 this season. i beg to differ, ginola came deep all the time looking for the ball, he just happened to piss off when defending needed doing. ben arfa is prepared to put some work in defensivly much to his credit and something you have to do if playing in midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 He'd tell him to just go out and express himself, bud. Hatem would then magically develop fantastic pace and start scoring 25 a season. He'd double his career tally in the first season alone. Gotta love KK and his long magic wand. Or perhaps he'd get the best out of him and utilise him correctly like his proven track record of doing so with Newcastle players. He certainly wouldn't have deployed him so defensively like Pardew has this season that's for sure. eh ? he played ginola exactly as pardew has ben arfa, wide in a midfield 4 except ben arfa puts more work in, more down to the player than the manager. Which, as I've pointed out before, Ben Arfa shouldn't be exempt from. Bale and Lennon manage to track back pretty well, for example. I'm not saying he should be exempt from it, it shows what a good character that he's got that he's prepared to do it. The problem though this season is that he hasn't saw enough of the ball in dangerous areas as more often than not he's receiving it in his own half instead of around the opposition area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I wouldn't say Ginola played anywhere near as deep as Ben Arfa has been in a 4-4-2 this season. i beg to differ, ginola came deep all the time looking for the ball, he just happened to piss off when defending needed doing. ben arfa is prepared to put some work in defensivly much to his credit and something you have to do if playing in midfield. He also received the ball a lot more often than Ben Arfa has been seeing this season in dangerous areas in the opposition half. Hopefully with our new players Pardew will allow him to express himself more as we certainly need his creativity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I wouldn't say Ginola played anywhere near as deep as Ben Arfa has been in a 4-4-2 this season. i beg to differ, ginola came deep all the time looking for the ball, he just happened to p*ss off when defending needed doing. ben arfa is prepared to put some work in defensivly much to his credit and something you have to do if playing in midfield. He also received the ball a lot more often than Ben Arfa has been seeing this season in dangerous areas in the opposition half. Hopefully with our new players Pardew will allow him to express himself more as we certainly need his creativity. could be many reasons for that, lack of movement of others, ben arfa not taking up good positions etc. fwiw i've always had it down to us being far too rigid, i'd like to see a 3 from sissoko, ben arfa, marveaux, gouffran, playing off cisse and them moving so much there are arguments in pubs later as to who was left,right or central. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Totally agree with all of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Every-time I've seen Spurs this season Bale does not really track back at all. Seems he is told to save his energy mainly for attacking purposes and rightly so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Every-time I've seen Spurs this season Bale does not really track back at all. Seems he is told to save his energy mainly for attacking purposes and rightly so. Only going on what my Spurs season ticket holding mate says. I suspect he knows better than you or me to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 He'd tell him to just go out and express himself, bud. Hatem would then magically develop fantastic pace and start scoring 25 a season. He'd double his career tally in the first season alone. Gotta love KK and his long magic wand. Or perhaps he'd get the best out of him and utilise him correctly like his proven track record of doing so with Newcastle players. He certainly wouldn't have deployed him so defensively like Pardew has this season that's for sure. So telling Hatem to concentrate on attacking would turn him into the best player in the league? Come on, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Every-time I've seen Spurs this season Bale does not really track back at all. Seems he is told to save his energy mainly for attacking purposes and rightly so. Only going on what my Spurs season ticket holding mate says. I suspect he knows better than you or me to be honest. You only have to look back to the match on Saturday to see how much Bale tracks back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Every-time I've seen Spurs this season Bale does not really track back at all. Seems he is told to save his energy mainly for attacking purposes and rightly so. Only going on what my Spurs season ticket holding mate says. I suspect he knows better than you or me to be honest. You only have to look back to the match on Saturday to see how much Bale tracks back. My eyes must be deceiving me... Oh wait Cristiano Ronaldo and Gareth Bale's average positions were near identical in their last games source: http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/868?ghghg&cc=5739 I guess Ronaldo is a tracking back work horse too Read more here: http://footballspeak.com/post/2011/12/09/The-secret-to-Gareth-Bales-recent-success.aspx Against the Gunners, Bale (3) is playing higher up the park than Emmanuel Adebayor (10) and even Jermaine Defoe (18) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 He can track far back and do defensive work when needed because he has the pace and the stamina to get back to transition quickly between phases. Obviously an "average position" would not reflect this. Comparing his defensive contribution to Ronaldo solely based on this is completely ridiculous. Bale plays defense when he needs to, that's part of why he's a great player. In fact, let's quote that very same article you linked. Finally we take a quick look at the defensive contribution of each player, with Bale's unsurprisingly higher. He averages 1 tackle and 1.5 interceptions per game compared to Ronaldo's near non-existent figures of 0.5 and 0.2 respectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 A whole 1 tackle ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 No indication that that single tackle isn't performed high up the pitch either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 He can track far back and do defensive work when needed because he has the pace and the stamina to get back to transition quickly between phases. Obviously an "average position" would not reflect this. Comparing his defensive contribution to Ronaldo solely based on this is completely ridiculous. Bale plays defense when he needs to, that's part of why he's a great player. In fact, let's quote that very same article you linked. Finally we take a quick look at the defensive contribution of each player, with Bale's unsurprisingly higher. He averages 1 tackle and 1.5 interceptions per game compared to Ronaldo's near non-existent figures of 0.5 and 0.2 respectively. Tracking back does not affect average position? the key word is "back" and 1 tackle a game? Wow he really does track back a lot. I mean that's a whole 0.5 more tackles than Cristiano Ronaldo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Tenuous link, but I love the story about Alex Ferguson scouting Paolo Maldini at one point when he thought there was a chance he might be able to sign him. He wanted to know how many tackles Maldini made per match, and the answer came back, "Roughly one every other game". Perfect defending Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Tenuous link, but I love the story about Alex Ferguson scouting Paolo Maldini at one point when he thought there was a chance he might be able to sign him. He wanted to know how many tackles Maldini made per match, and the answer came back, "Roughly one every other game". Perfect defending I wish more people understood this, especially in English football. Running around and getting stuck in is massively overrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDT Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Maldini was a once in a generation type though, problem is most players don't have the ability that he had. If players with less ability didn't make tackles and get stuck in they would get a ridiculous amount of stick from the fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Not sure how many tackles people think are made a match, but I suspect people are overestimating the statistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Quote from: Xabi Alonso in November 2011 "I don't think tackling is a quality," he says. "It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it. Another quote from: Xabi Alonso in November 2011 "Passion?" he says. "Of course it's necessary but it's more important to have footballing foundations, certainly when developing players. Passion isn't something you work on. It's more important to construct a good team, to know how you are going to play, how to read the match. You have to truly understand the game." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Maldini was a once in a generation type though, problem is most players don't have the ability that he had. If players with less ability didn't make tackles and get stuck in they would get a ridiculous amount of stick from the fans. Not in a major footballing country other than England they wouldn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDT Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Unfortunately it's seen as the 'bulldog' spirit of the english, all blood and thunder. Some of the most iconic english footballing pictures from the last 30 years are Ince and Butcher covered in blood. It's seen as the english way, I'm not saying it's right but unfortunately we're stuck with it in this country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Poor Hugo Viana had no idea what he was getting into Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Another tenuous segue: is anyone good enough on Photoshop to put a large onion (and not an enormous penis) in Mike's hands in my avatar pic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Quote from: Xabi Alonso in November 2011 "I don't think tackling is a quality," he says. "It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it. Another quote from: Xabi Alonso in November 2011 "Passion?" he says. "Of course it's necessary but it's more important to have footballing foundations, certainly when developing players. Passion isn't something you work on. It's more important to construct a good team, to know how you are going to play, how to read the match. You have to truly understand the game." Jay Spearing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Tenuous link, but I love the story about Alex Ferguson scouting Paolo Maldini at one point when he thought there was a chance he might be able to sign him. He wanted to know how many tackles Maldini made per match, and the answer came back, "Roughly one every other game". Perfect defending just like woodgate at his best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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