Dogawful Officiating

[Cf]

7 hours ago, Rod said:

Perfectly put. VAR is actually brilliant if used correctly. It is still the idiot officials that fuck up, not VAR.

 

VAR is the officials using it. I don't know how many times this needs to be said for people to understand. It's literally in the name. 

 

The technology is literally just video replays. We could have been doing this in the 90s or earlier if we wanted to. 

 

And I'd like to know how we know it's "actually brilliant if used correctly" as we certainly haven't seen any evidence of that so far. 

[Cf]

Obviously I'd rather just bin the whole thing but if we are going to keep it i'd rather we let the ref lean into it more. 

 

I've seen a few exchanges go like this:

 

Ref: can you look at the penalty incident please

 

VAR: Will do. Confirm on field decision please. 

 

Ref: err, I dunno didn't really get a good view, no foul maybe?

 

VAR: Understood.

 

Internal VAR: Well that looks like a foul to me but I can see why the ref didn't think it was so it's not clear and obvious so let's hang him out to dry. 

 

VAR: Confirm on field decision of no foul. 

 

 

Whereas what could happen is....

 

Ref: can you look at the penalty incident please

 

VAR: Will do. Confirm on field decision please. 

 

Ref: I don't know. Let me know what you think and advise if I should go to the screen to look or not. 

 

Done. If VAR thinks it's obvious either way then say so, otherwise get ref to go have a look and his combination of what he saw in real time plus replay can inform his decision. 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2025 by Cf

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It just shouldn’t be about explicitly confirming the on-field decision IMO.
 

It should be about the referee asking for help if needed, or the VAR telling him he’s made a mistake. 

 

The problem is just that I can’t see an implementation that doesn’t ruin the flow of the game, the celebration of goals and doesn’t lead to minute examination of minor things leading to major impacts on the game. It’s out of control versus what the intention is meant to be. 
 

I think some of the rules are unclear too though, which doesn’t help. Handball in particular. 

[gbandit]

Has VAR managed to correctly alter incorrect on-field decisions? Yes

 

Has managed to incorrectly alter on-field decisions? Yes

 

Has it not intervened when it should have done? Yes

 

Do all of the above happen regularly? Most matches.

 

What is the net outcome on correct or incorrect decisions due to VAR’s intervention in the game? Fuck knows because the data is inherently biased.

 

Is it worth the impact it’s had on match going fans, and those who are watching on screens, and the impact it’s had in creating even more bias towards favoured teams? Absolutely not. It’s fucking awful and all it’s done has given more power to Refs and taken the game further away from the players on the pitch and the fans. Why incompetent referees have been given this much power baffles me

[El Prontonise]

58 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Has VAR managed to correctly alter incorrect on-field decisions? Yes

 

Has managed to incorrectly alter on-field decisions? Yes

 

Has it not intervened when it should have done? Yes

 

Do all of the above happen regularly? Most matches.

 

What is the net outcome on correct or incorrect decisions due to VAR’s intervention in the game? Fuck knows because the data is inherently biased.

 

Is it worth the impact it’s had on match going fans, and those who are watching on screens, and the impact it’s had in creating even more bias towards favoured teams? Absolutely not. It’s fucking awful and all it’s done has given more power to Refs and taken the game further away from the players on the pitch and the fans. Why incompetent referees have been given this much power baffles me

 

Spot on

[Abacus]

I wonder if there was a poll now amongst match going fans on whether to keep VAR in something like it's current form or to scrap it altogether, what the results would be.

[Yorkie]

If you disregard the fact that the whole thing is inherently flawed, I think the biggest issue - at the strategic scale - is that it's constant. There isn't a moment in the game where it isn't live. 

 

I'm no fan of VAR but I think there probably is a world where it can be a net positive, it's just a world where its application is far more selective and not a blanket over everything. Every single goal having to be digitally ratified is such a miserable way for the game to be played, and I very much include offsides in that, probably moreso than anything else tbh.

 

If it was limited to serious foul play (i.e. upgrading/downgrading possible red card offences) and off the ball incidents, I don't think many people would argue too much, despite the subjective nature of those matters inevitably leading to some ropey calls. Those are the occasions where I've really thought it's justified it's existence.

 

There could be room for VAR when it comes to penalties, because they are incredibly sensitive to a result and an injustice around those incidents are deeply unfair if you're the defending team.

 

I'd argue that the existence of VAR is more compelling in how it might save a defending team from an injustice (i.e. reversing a penalty that should never have been awarded). It's existence is much less compelling in how it might reward an attacking team after (for example) a missed handball that wasn't denying any goal-scoring opportunity.

 

Being rewarded with a disproportionately large goal-scoring opportunity (relative to the infringement) has been a part of the game for centuries, and I certainly wouldn't advocate changing the penalty rule. I just don't think we need a man in a booth, searching for ways to increase those incidents. If the ref has missed a handball or a pull; it's annoying but it's not like a penalty reimburses a lost goal-scoring opportunity. Pens are like 0.88 xG or something.

 

So yeah. Serious foul play incidents and penalty reversals and leave it at that.

[Dr Venkman]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It just shouldn’t be about explicitly confirming the on-field decision IMO.
 

It should be about the referee asking for help if needed, or the VAR telling him he’s made a mistake. 

 

The problem is just that I can’t see an implementation that doesn’t ruin the flow of the game, the celebration of goals and doesn’t lead to minute examination of minor things leading to major impacts on the game. It’s out of control versus what the intention is meant to be. 
 

I think some of the rules are unclear too though, which doesn’t help. Handball in particular. 

If there is any doubt about the on-field decision, whether it’s via VAR or coaches challenge, the decision from then on should be nothing to do with the on-field ref. Plenty of other sports do this. It’s not perfect but it’s much better than the ‘referee can never be wrong’ shite we have to put up with in football. They’re trying to have their cake and eat it, too.

[Erikse]

4 hours ago, Yorkie said:

If you disregard the fact that the whole thing is inherently flawed, I think the biggest issue - at the strategic scale - is that it's constant. There isn't a moment in the game where it isn't live. 

 

I'm no fan of VAR but I think there probably is a world where it can be a net positive, it's just a world where its application is far more selective and not a blanket over everything. Every single goal having to be digitally ratified is such a miserable way for the game to be played, and I very much include offsides in that, probably moreso than anything else tbh.

 

If it was limited to serious foul play (i.e. upgrading/downgrading possible red card offences) and off the ball incidents, I don't think many people would argue too much, despite the subjective nature of those matters inevitably leading to some ropey calls. Those are the occasions where I've really thought it's justified it's existence.

 

There could be room for VAR when it comes to penalties, because they are incredibly sensitive to a result and an injustice around those incidents are deeply unfair if you're the defending team.

 

I'd argue that the existence of VAR is more compelling in how it might save a defending team from an injustice (i.e. reversing a penalty that should never have been awarded). It's existence is much less compelling in how it might reward an attacking team after (for example) a missed handball that wasn't denying any goal-scoring opportunity.

 

Being rewarded with a disproportionately large goal-scoring opportunity (relative to the infringement) has been a part of the game for centuries, and I certainly wouldn't advocate changing the penalty rule. I just don't think we need a man in a booth, searching for ways to increase those incidents. If the ref has missed a handball or a pull; it's annoying but it's not like a penalty reimburses a lost goal-scoring opportunity. Pens are like 0.88 xG or something.

 

So yeah. Serious foul play incidents and penalty reversals and leave it at that.

 

I agree with a lot of this, but offside goals are even more sensitive to the result, as they are a certain goal. Lets say your defence lays a great offside trap, the striker is half a meter offside, but then it's given? It's annoying that we have to check the millimeter offsides, but if we can't check those, then we can't check the obvious ones either. New technology has already sped up the process.

 

How about offsides being measures by the shoes? It's a bit silly and overcomplicated when you have to consider what centimetre of the arm that would be classified as a handball if used.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2025 by Erikse

[Yorkie]

2 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

I agree with a lot of this, but offside goals are even more sensitive to the result, as they are a certain goal. Lets say your defence lays a great offside trap, the striker is half a meter offside, but yet it's given? It's annoying that we have to check the millimeter offsides, but if we can't check those, then we can't check the obvious ones either. New technology has already sped up the process.

 

 

 

 

I assume you mean half a metre of daylight, because I think most cases where there isn't any, any sense of an advantage being gained is incredibly dubious. Anyway, I know offsides is never going away, so it's not really a worthwhile debate. Could probably say the same for the whole thing really but there you go.

[joeyt]

 

 

 

[Virtua Stiva]

It’s more of an “expectation of basic competence” that they have routinely failed to meet for about 5 seasons now. If this is genuinely their mindset off the back of some justified criticism of some fucking mind-bending decisions, then things will never improve 

[gbandit]

I get it, we’re never going to get every decision right and many decisions remain extremely subjective to all of us. However, the degree to which they make routine basic judgements that are terrible is absurd. It’s not an easy job and they shouldn’t be subjected to torrents of abuse but it’s hard to let things go when the standard is so poor. They’re talking about finding VAR shit, so are fans. Who the fuck is happy with VAR?

[joeyt]

14 minutes ago, Virtua Stiva said:

It’s more of an “expectation of basic competence” that they have routinely failed to meet for about 5 seasons now. If this is genuinely their mindset off the back of some justified criticism of some fucking mind-bending decisions, then things will never improve 

 

About 5 seasons? So when VAR came in?

 

 

Like I say it's ruining the game

[Yorkie]

Fair play to Taylor for speaking out publicly. Need all the refs to lobby against the current application of VAR. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I agree we should expect much less from referees TBH. Whinging about offside and drawing lines on TV programmes is what led to us having to suffer VAR in the first place. 

 

The culture of cheating amongst the players is also major in the PL. 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2025 by AyeDubbleYoo

[80]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I agree we should expect much less from referees TBH. Whinging about offside and drawing lines on TB programmes is what led to us having to suffer VAR in the first place. 

 

The culture of cheating amongst the players is also major in the PL. 

 

 

 

Totally agree. Can't expect perfection, but you can destroy a good thing.

[Pilko]

11 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I agree we should expect much less from referees TBH. 

 

Fucking hell, if we do that they'll not turn up on a Saturday

[huss9]

no real issues with refs on the pitch - they have a tough job. we need consistency though.

the refs in the VAR room, on the other hand, are a disgrace.

[Disco]

6 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

About 5 seasons? So when VAR came in?

 

 

Like I say it's ruining the game

Brought in because people (mainly dickheads in the media) couldn’t accept human error and that it is always going to part of the game. Turns out human error is still a thing because it’s human ran but now with the added bonus of everything being highlighted to the nth degree. 

[midds]

Still feels like the rules are applied backwards. There's always been a subconscious bias for certain clubs for decades, some teams have just seemed to have the run of the green every single time, normally the biggest and richest funnily enough. It now seems to be the case that if a goal needs to be given or ruled out then that same subconscious bias is still in play and they'll find reasons to allow or disallow them according to the interpretation of the pictures. The bias is still there, the same teams still seem to get the run of the green and each bullshit decision/justification is just put down to interpretation of rules that are seldom used in normal play. 

 

In other words they always seem to find a way to give the decision they want to give. It's absolutely not a level playing field at all, not that it ever was and that's the whole issue. The technology is brilliant but it still falls to people to interpret it and that's where the bias always comes into play

[The Prophet]

7 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

 

 

 

Can't both things be true though?

 

No one should be abusing referees, but no one expects perfection, just a baseline level of competence.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

2 hours ago, Disco said:

Brought in because people (mainly dickheads in the media) couldn’t accept human error and that it is always going to part of the game. Turns out human error is still a thing because it’s human ran but now with the added bonus of everything being highlighted to the nth degree. 

 

No it was brought in because there always a technology that could be monetarised.

 

Doesn't matter if it was something that was valuable, it was something that was there and something people had a vested financial interest in.

 

It's just an extension of the modern world where you need to have some form or tech, automation or AI even when it is a net negative

[Keegans Export]

12 hours ago, The Prophet said:

 

Can't both things be true though?

 

No one should be abusing referees, but no one expects perfection, just a baseline level of competence.

Absolutely right.

 

Even if an on-field or VAR makes a massive cock-up they shouldn't be being abused, same with players, managers etc.

 

The issue with VAR isn't that the decision making isn't perfect though, when you've got judgement calls there will be occasions where two people see two different things. The problem is the absolute nonsense decisions that get made - the recent Celtic "handball" for example - where the blokes looking at the screen see one thing and literally everyone else sees something different. 

 

Edit - or the one that turned me fully against VAR, we had a goal disallowed for a foul on the keeper, but the clip the VAR showed the ref started after our attacker had been pushed into the keeper. At least give the on-field ref the entirety of the available footage to make the decision ffs. Intentionally or not, they showed him footage that led him to make the wrong decision, the exact opposite of what VAR is supposed to achieve. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2025 by Keegans Export

[Cf]

19 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I agree we should expect much less from referees TBH. Whinging about offside and drawing lines on TV programmes is what led to us having to suffer VAR in the first place. 

 

The culture of cheating amongst the players is also major in the PL. 

 

 

 

 

Totally agree on the cheating aspect. There need to start dishing out red cards for simulation and I include simulating injuries in that. 

 

If a player goes down holding their face and a replay shows there was no contact then get them off the pitch. 

 

A ref's job is hard enough without players trying to con them for every single decision. 

 

And whilst they're at it they need to clamp down on managers constantly harassing the 4th official. The odd chat is fine but we are subject to pictures of Arteta and Slot constantly frothing at the mouth screaming at them. What sort of message does that send out that this is somehow ok?