TaylorJ_01 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I can't remember names, and I'm not looking to find out. But it happened. They know who they are. I'm one of them I like that, hands up and just admit your wrong. Good stuff. Ban. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Basically replace Ben Arfa with Walcott in our team and watch him fail. Oh I agree I can't remember names, and I'm not looking to find out. But it happened. They know who they are. I'm one of them I like that, hands up and just admit your wrong. Good stuff. I think I wasn't in same boat as some people thinking he is all that, this season so far he has looked the business. Love watching him, just think there have been far more effective players in the league and for all his talents he only shows glimpses at times. Now that may be the way we have setup or just that he doesn't always apply himself, and then there was his beer gut at back end of season. He's not done as much as Cazorla/Ozil/Walcott/Mata/ in the league in my opinion, even if you think Walcott is limited, he has still been more effective than Ben Arfa, albeit in a better team. Ben Arfa has all the talents to be up there with all of them and the rest, just doesn't always have that cutting edge that he has shown the last few games Walcott may have shown more in terms of his effectiveness, and done more because of where he is, but Ben Arfa is unquestionably the better player and the better talent. So much better it actually aches. More talent doesn't always equate to better player in this league. How good Ben Arfa would have been if he had gone to Man Utd when scouted at Lyon I don't know, but the fact is he ended up at a club like ours and not there. Walcott ended up at Arsenal probably because Wenger thought he was good enough. Why did Ben Arfa not? I love watching him etc, but am realistic and he is a flawed player. Nah, I'm not having that. The question was who is the better player, not who plays in the better team, under better circumstances. Purely going on what I see in them as players, Ben Arfa is a better footballer than Theo Walcott and by quite some distance. Ok then, in 2 seasons prior to this that Ben Arfa has been in our league Walcott - 22 goals and 18 assists Ben Arfa - 9 Goals and 9 Assists Better team or not from an effective point of view he has helped his team out more than Ben Arfa has (I include being fit). I don't necessarily like watching Walcott as a player but to say he's not as good (Despite the tricks and individuality) is wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Basically replace Ben Arfa with Walcott in our team and watch him fail. Oh I agree I can't remember names, and I'm not looking to find out. But it happened. They know who they are. I'm one of them I like that, hands up and just admit your wrong. Good stuff. I think I wasn't in same boat as some people thinking he is all that, this season so far he has looked the business. Love watching him, just think there have been far more effective players in the league and for all his talents he only shows glimpses at times. Now that may be the way we have setup or just that he doesn't always apply himself, and then there was his beer gut at back end of season. He's not done as much as Cazorla/Ozil/Walcott/Mata/ in the league in my opinion, even if you think Walcott is limited, he has still been more effective than Ben Arfa, albeit in a better team. Ben Arfa has all the talents to be up there with all of them and the rest, just doesn't always have that cutting edge that he has shown the last few games Walcott may have shown more in terms of his effectiveness, and done more because of where he is, but Ben Arfa is unquestionably the better player and the better talent. So much better it actually aches. More talent doesn't always equate to better player in this league. How good Ben Arfa would have been if he had gone to Man Utd when scouted at Lyon I don't know, but the fact is he ended up at a club like ours and not there. Walcott ended up at Arsenal probably because Wenger thought he was good enough. Why did Ben Arfa not? I love watching him etc, but am realistic and he is a flawed player. Nah, I'm not having that. The question was who is the better player, not who plays in the better team, under better circumstances. Purely going on what I see in them as players, Ben Arfa is a better footballer than Theo Walcott and by quite some distance. Ok then, in 2 seasons prior to this that Ben Arfa has been in our league Walcott - 22 goals and 18 assists Ben Arfa - 9 Goals and 9 Assists Better team or not from an effective point of view he has helped his team out more than Ben Arfa has (I include being fit). I don't necessarily like watching Walcott as a player but to say he's not as good (Despite the tricks and individuality) is wrong Neither of us are right or wrong. As far as I'm concerned though, Ben Arfa is the better footballer, which was the question asked. You could say that Walcott is more effective, which he is. But none of that means anything when you single it right down to the players as players. You look at someone like David May and say that they won more because he played for Man United and Blackburn, but was average. Walcott is more effective because he's fast and plays for one of the best teams in the league, with one of the best managers in the league. Player for player, away from their teams, Ben Arfa is comfortably better. Walcott couldn't do half of what Ben Arfa does, but we've seen Ben Arfa do what Walcott has done, in a team nowhere near as good as Arsenal's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 now that, hopefully, ben arfa gets a run in that position further up, it'll make sense to compare to him to a walcott and then see as opposed to comparing them when one is up front and one is wide in a middle 4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Basically replace Ben Arfa with Walcott in our team and watch him fail. Oh I agree I can't remember names, and I'm not looking to find out. But it happened. They know who they are. I'm one of them I like that, hands up and just admit your wrong. Good stuff. I think I wasn't in same boat as some people thinking he is all that, this season so far he has looked the business. Love watching him, just think there have been far more effective players in the league and for all his talents he only shows glimpses at times. Now that may be the way we have setup or just that he doesn't always apply himself, and then there was his beer gut at back end of season. He's not done as much as Cazorla/Ozil/Walcott/Mata/ in the league in my opinion, even if you think Walcott is limited, he has still been more effective than Ben Arfa, albeit in a better team. Ben Arfa has all the talents to be up there with all of them and the rest, just doesn't always have that cutting edge that he has shown the last few games Walcott may have shown more in terms of his effectiveness, and done more because of where he is, but Ben Arfa is unquestionably the better player and the better talent. So much better it actually aches. More talent doesn't always equate to better player in this league. How good Ben Arfa would have been if he had gone to Man Utd when scouted at Lyon I don't know, but the fact is he ended up at a club like ours and not there. Walcott ended up at Arsenal probably because Wenger thought he was good enough. Why did Ben Arfa not? I love watching him etc, but am realistic and he is a flawed player. Nah, I'm not having that. The question was who is the better player, not who plays in the better team, under better circumstances. Purely going on what I see in them as players, Ben Arfa is a better footballer than Theo Walcott and by quite some distance. Ok then, in 2 seasons prior to this that Ben Arfa has been in our league Walcott - 22 goals and 18 assists Ben Arfa - 9 Goals and 9 Assists Better team or not from an effective point of view he has helped his team out more than Ben Arfa has (I include being fit). I don't necessarily like watching Walcott as a player but to say he's not as good (Despite the tricks and individuality) is wrong Neither of us are right or wrong. As far as I'm concerned though, Ben Arfa is the better footballer, which was the question asked. You could say that Walcott is more effective, which he is. But none of that means anything when you single it right down to the players as players. You look at someone like David May and say that they won more because he played for Man United and Blackburn, but was average. Walcott is more effective because he's fast and plays for one of the best teams in the league, with one of the best managers in the league. Player for player, away from their teams, Ben Arfa is comfortably better. Walcott couldn't do half of what Ben Arfa does, but we've seen Ben Arfa do what Walcott has done, in a team nowhere near as good as Arsenal's. Btw, I find Walcott frustrating to watch and do prefer watching Ben Arfa as more skillful and controlled in possession , just looking at how effective each are for respective sides Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 now that, hopefully, ben arfa gets a run in that position further up, it'll make sense to compare to him to a walcott and then see as opposed to comparing them when one is up front and one is wide in a middle 4. I just hope he stays fit all season, will make a massive difference to us if he can continue the way he has played so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Walcott is very overrated IMO. He's not even in the same talent bracket as HBA. Effectiveness... I guess if you're going by statistics it's a different argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Walcott is very overrated IMO. He's not even in the same talent bracket as HBA. Effectiveness... I guess if you're going by statistics it's a different argument. It tends to be the only argument that matters when looking at top teams though. Messi and Ronaldo have the talent and execute it excellently, I would argue Ben Arfa has the talent but has lacked something, maybe mentally to make the most of it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Walcott like him or not has proved for a while now that he's effective and scores goals. HBA for his talent has not..... honesty people overestimate talent its nothing without end product and consistency. Sure HBA has more talent but until he does it week in week out it means nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Walcott is very overrated IMO. He's not even in the same talent bracket as HBA. Effectiveness... I guess if you're going by statistics it's a different argument. It tends to be the only argument that matters when looking at top teams though. Messi and Ronaldo have the talent and execute it excellently, I would argue Ben Arfa has the talent but has lacked something, maybe mentally to make the most of it In the past it's stopped him from ending up at Real Madrid, Man United etc, but that's where he was scouted for. I would argue that he's at that level but he's crackers enough to play for us. There's no doubt that Ashley would cash in if he wanted to be away, but I don't think he wants to for the time being. Which is surprising and brilliant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Walcott like him or not has proved for a while now that he's effective and scores goals. HBA for his talent has not..... honesty people overestimate talent its nothing without end product and consistency. Sure HBA has more talent but until he does it week in week out it means nothing. Exactly, you only have to look at so many players that have failed that have the talent but have not had the other side to it that makes them effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Application hasn't been a problem for HBA since he arrived here. It's injuries that have set him back, not end product or consistency. I think it's churlish to suggest otherwise. People talk about confidence and form and things like that with players. For me, only injuries have affected Ben Arfa, nothing else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Walcott is a very good athlete and a very average footballer. It's interesting that Ozil's brilliance illustrated that point perfectly against the mackems, he set up Walcott with exquisite passes laid on a plate, and Walcott fluffed them all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Application hasn't been a problem for HBA since he arrived here. It's injuries that have set him back, not end product or consistency. I think it's churlish to suggest otherwise. People talk about confidence and form and things like that with players. For me, only injuries have affected Ben Arfa, nothing else. Injuries haven't helped but it would be churlish to say he hasn't been inconsistent at best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Disagree. I can't really say more than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 If HBA can stay fit he'll score 10+ goals and the assists.. in the league. No dobut about that. I don't think it's fair to compare HBA to flat-track bully types such as Walcott or even Hazard. He's more of a Cazorla/Mata type if we are going to compare. He'll get the goals and assists if he can stay injury free. No doubt about that part. But the injury thing..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Just out of curiosity, a mackem i know, has just said after HBA's latest comments, ‘Cazorla/Ozil/Walcott/Mata/Hazard/Oscar/Eriksen are all better than Ben Arfa’, how many of them would you agree with? Or is there anyone else in the league that is better who he hasn’t said? I would agree with all except Eriksen and Oscar. Neither of those two have proven anything yet and I think Oscar will actually spend most of his career playing further back as a pure central midfielder, though a top quality one, once he gains some kilos of muscle. Cazorla is about even, imo. I think Ozil, Mata, and Hazard are just better footballers. Ozil and Mata have vision and passing range beyond Ben Arfa and provide more for their team game to game. Hazard is a few months older than Shane Ferguson and either the best or second player on one of the best teams in England. I rate the guy extremely highly, and he is also a great athlete who works extremely hard in every game I've ever seen him play. Walcott is a very different type of player, and definitely less aesthetically pleasing, but he has been incredibly productive for Arsenal since about the turn of the decade. The boy has matured into a verifiable Lethal Weapon. Ben Arfa is one of the most naturally gifted players on the planet with the ball at his feet and his best matches any player other than the two pillars in La Liga, but he has never played at his best for an extended period of time (a full season) at any point in his career and I am not sure he ever will. Twenty-six year old wide players generally are who they will be at the end of things. It is my opinion that he will remain inconsistent and frustrating in terms of comparison with the world's best for the rest of his career, but at the same time will be someone who is a fantastic entertainer who can win matches on his own, while also being the best player at this football club for years to come. From the perspective of a fullback, though, Ben Arfa is the one I would least want to face. The others will beat you. Hatem will embarrass you and shatter your confidence as a man on his day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 See i would have him more like a Hazard then a Cazorla, just opinions and how you see the game i suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Application hasn't been a problem for HBA since he arrived here. It's injuries that have set him back, not end product or consistency. I think it's churlish to suggest otherwise. People talk about confidence and form and things like that with players. For me, only injuries have affected Ben Arfa, nothing else. Injuries haven't helped but it would be churlish to say he hasn't been inconsistent at best. It's churlish to keep coming into this thread just to slate the best player we've had in years and say x player is better or has proven more. He has has been responsible for every goal we've scored this season. Just enjoy what we are very lucky to have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I do enjoy( he's probably my favourite player ffs ) and i'm doing no such thing, i didn't bring it up to start with i'm adding to the conversation which had already been started by somebody else. I just unlike some people realise Hatem isn't perfect and can improve, carry on though. Saying i'm slating Hatem because i notice he's inconsistent and doesn't provide the sort of end product he should instead of digging my head in the sand is quite frankly pathetic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Our best player in first half against City, mom against West Ham, came off bench to win us the game against Morecambe, won mom against Fulham, another mom against Villa… needs to get some consistency this fella. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 i notice he's inconsistent and doesn't provide the sort of end product he should And it's daft to just blame Ben Arfa for this when he's had to play in disciplined 4-4-2 and do a lot of defensive work on a regular basis. You think someone like Theo Walcott would have had the same effect he did last season if he had to work under the same circumstances? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Our best player in first half against City, mom against West Ham, came off bench to win us the game against Morecambe, won mom against Fulham, another mom against Villa… needs to get some consistency this fella. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 The biggest worry is not HBA or his anything he does, it's that the hopes, goals and dreams of the entire fucking club are placed on him and him alone to execute. We need someone else even half as good as him in the side, hopefully Remy can fix that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Ben Arfa is better than all the players named on the last page, he's the only one mad enough to come here and that put's him head and shoulders above the rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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