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Alan '48 points' Pardew

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oldtype

oldtype

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I don't understand your argument at all like OT. Even now Atletico Madrid are on the verge of winning La Liga and the CL. History is littered with teams going above and beyond what's expected. Saying otherwise, even with a cynical outlook on it ignores the amount of recent finals reached, leagues won and cups won by teams that you wouldn't expect to across Europe.

 

I think there's an error in conflating the exception with the norm. Atletico winning this year doesn't vindicate the fact that La Liga has been a two-club shop every year since Valencia torpedoed themselves.

 

Obviously there's no such thing as a statistical impossibility, and there are all kinds of cups in every country so even smaller teams will win sometimes (that's probably why cups still exist), but I just happen to think that the disparity in prospects for success between a small subset of clubs and other clubs is too large.

 

Of course you could think that while the disparity exists, it's still within reason. that's a subjective judgment call and entirely up to you.

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I don't understand your argument at all like OT. Even now Atletico Madrid are on the verge of winning La Liga and the CL. History is littered with teams going above and beyond what's expected. Saying otherwise, even with a cynical outlook on it ignores the amount of recent finals reached, leagues won and cups won by teams that you wouldn't expect to across Europe.

 

I think there's an error in conflating the exception with the norm. Atletico winning this year doesn't vindicate the fact that La Liga has been a two-club shop every year since Valencia torpedoed themselves.

 

Obviously there's no such thing as a statistical impossibility, and there are all kinds of cups in every country so even smaller teams will win sometimes (that's probably why cups still exist), but I just happen to think that the disparity in prospects for success between a small subset of clubs and other clubs is too large.

 

Of course you could think that while the disparity exists, it's still within reason. that's a subjective judgment call and entirely up to you.

 

Haven't really followed this whole conversation, but two questions, firstly haven't football always been like this even without the mass influx of money into leagues? And secondly what do you suggest is the best way to go, what system would you have implemented?

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Posted
Posted

I don't understand your argument at all like OT. Even now Atletico Madrid are on the verge of winning La Liga and the CL. History is littered with teams going above and beyond what's expected. Saying otherwise, even with a cynical outlook on it ignores the amount of recent finals reached, leagues won and cups won by teams that you wouldn't expect to across Europe.

 

I think there's an error in conflating the exception with the norm. Atletico winning this year doesn't vindicate the fact that La Liga has been a two-club shop every year since Valencia torpedoed themselves.

 

Obviously there's no such thing as a statistical impossibility, and there are all kinds of cups in every country so even smaller teams will win sometimes (that's probably why cups still exist), but I just happen to think that the disparity in prospects for success between a small subset of clubs and other clubs is too large.

 

Of course you could think that while the disparity exists, it's still within reason. that's a subjective judgment call and entirely up to you.

 

I'll just get straight to the point.

Do you think that we shouldn't try to win a cup in the same way that: Swansea, Wigan, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Spurs, Middlesbrough have won cups in the last 10 years (that's 6 times out of 10 years where "non-entitlement clubs" as you put it have won cups) or compete in finals in the way that Millwall, West Ham, Cardiff x2, Everton, Portsmouth, Stoke, Bolton, Wigan, Villa, Bradford and Sunderland have in the last 10 years? (that's 12 times out of 10 years where "non-entitlement teams" have competed in a finals)

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Unbelievable

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Any news from the fans forum tonight?

 

 

Thomas

‏@Thomas91nufc

Good Fans Forum tonight I must admit.

 

Handing out free Pardew Pens?

 

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Thomas ‏@Thomas91nufc  12m

Wednesday mate. It's only as good as it can be I suppose.

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Confirmed he's staying then, plus some spiel about investment/transfer activity. Same as last season's end pretty much.

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oldtype

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Posted
Posted

I don't understand your argument at all like OT. Even now Atletico Madrid are on the verge of winning La Liga and the CL. History is littered with teams going above and beyond what's expected. Saying otherwise, even with a cynical outlook on it ignores the amount of recent finals reached, leagues won and cups won by teams that you wouldn't expect to across Europe.

 

I think there's an error in conflating the exception with the norm. Atletico winning this year doesn't vindicate the fact that La Liga has been a two-club shop every year since Valencia torpedoed themselves.

 

Obviously there's no such thing as a statistical impossibility, and there are all kinds of cups in every country so even smaller teams will win sometimes (that's probably why cups still exist), but I just happen to think that the disparity in prospects for success between a small subset of clubs and other clubs is too large.

 

Of course you could think that while the disparity exists, it's still within reason. that's a subjective judgment call and entirely up to you.

 

Haven't really followed this whole conversation, but two questions, firstly haven't football always been like this even without the mass influx of money into leagues? And secondly what do you suggest is the best way to go, what system would you have implemented?

 

As to your first question, I think from a fan's perspective there's three key differences

 

1. The monopoly is stronger because it's reinforced by Champions League money.

2. The monopoly is more grating because it now includes teams who are not there for historical reasons but through money

3. As a result of 2, the monopoly is now harder to break into because 4~5 teams need to slip up ahead of you as opposed to just 2~3

 

I think the combination of these effects is apparent if you look to the list of league winners. Up to the early 90s, you see the same two names with a third name thrown in occasionally, but there was a lot of variation in the identity of the third name. In more recent years, it's essentially always been one of four teams (Three if you exclude those early wins by Arsenal.)

 

As for solutions, I haven't the foggiest clue. The possibility for regulation is limited in that places like the Russian/Chinese/Qatari leagues are ready to step in and exploit any market inefficiencies.

 

One thing that seem at least somewhat possible would be to force CL clubs to share part of their TV revenue with every other domestic professional club in their country. The share each club gets wouldn't be much, but it at least mitigates the distorting effect caused by the CL and allow CL qualification from small countries to create a trickle-down effect that strengthens the league as a whole.

 

Alternatively, if the dreaded European Superleague ever becomes a reality, that might provide an impetus for the remaining domestic clubs to get together and reform the league in a more regulated model with salary caps and the like. That's all a bit pie in the sky though.

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