hakka Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 You hear it quite a lot, folk saying you have to be careful with youth, blood them in slowly incase they burn out. I think there's a case for that, but I feel more strongly for the idea that if you're good enough, you're old enough, and you take care of the player with regards to rest if the problem crops up. Some managers are just scared of playing youth talent and hide behind the excuse of "protecting" them. Pardew falls into this for me. We're a top flight club, players signed to this club know the level they have to play at, they for the most part want to play at this level, so let them have their chance instead of playing the likes of Gosling and Obertan who can't offer something like an Aarons can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This problem of the 18-21 year old and their difficulties in progressing to the first team is a hot topic with Premiership clubs in general. I don't think Dyke and his feeder clubs is a viable proposition, so I think we're stuck with the loan system, despite it's faults. The standard required now is so high, and the penalties for failure are so great, that you can't really blame managers for buying experienced players from abroad who can fit into the first team much more quickly. Aarons should go on loan. Keegan signed Bassong as a £1m unknown youngster IIRC and then put him in the first team and played him regularly to such good effect that when we sold him he was worth £8m. There weren't many players under Keegan's time in charge whose value didn't increase. On checking the stats, Bassong was 22,with nearly 80 first team appearances behind him. He's not really an example of the kind of problem we're talking about here. I can't recall Keegan being much of a developer of young talent tbh. He tended to buy proven quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This problem of the 18-21 year old and their difficulties in progressing to the first team is a hot topic with Premiership clubs in general. I don't think Dyke and his feeder clubs is a viable proposition, so I think we're stuck with the loan system, despite it's faults. The standard required now is so high, and the penalties for failure are so great, that you can't really blame managers for buying experienced players from abroad who can fit into the first team much more quickly. Aarons should go on loan. Keegan signed Bassong as a £1m unknown youngster IIRC and then put him in the first team and played him regularly to such good effect that when we sold him he was worth £8m. There weren't many players under Keegan's time in charge whose value didn't increase. On checking the stats, Bassong was 22,with nearly 80 first team appearances behind him. He's not really an example of the kind of problem we're talking about here. I can't recall Keegan being much of a developer of young talent tbh. He tended to buy proven quality. What, you mean when we were challenging for the title? Get away man, what a cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leek Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Money in the English game has ruined it for the youngsters, teams aren't prepared to give them a chance because of the risks of it not turning out well are to much. Foreign teams usually give youngsters a chance because of the lack of resources they have, then in turn Premier League teams end up buying them if they turn out good as they have first team experience, and it just continues like that. Theres got to be more incentive for Premier League teams to play players and some sort of money incentive will be the only thing that will interest them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Money in the English game has ruined it for the youngsters, teams aren't prepared to give them a chance because of the risks of it not turning out well are to much. Foreign teams usually give youngsters a chance because of the lack of resources they have, then in turn Premier League teams end up buying them if they turn out good as they have first team experience, and it just continues like that. Theres got to be more incentive for Premier League teams to play players and some sort of money incentive will be the only thing that will interest them. Another aspect of the money issue is the contract they get if they have the slightest sniff of first team action. Sammy Ameobi's probably got more money than I'll ever see. Where's the motivation to improve? Some players will just have it regardless of finance and that's great, but plenty won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 english football needs to burn itself out like italian did in the 80's, unfortunately with sky continuing to throw radged money at the clubs that looks a long, long way off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 This problem of the 18-21 year old and their difficulties in progressing to the first team is a hot topic with Premiership clubs in general. I don't think Dyke and his feeder clubs is a viable proposition, so I think we're stuck with the loan system, despite it's faults. The standard required now is so high, and the penalties for failure are so great, that you can't really blame managers for buying experienced players from abroad who can fit into the first team much more quickly. Aarons should go on loan. Keegan signed Bassong as a £1m unknown youngster IIRC and then put him in the first team and played him regularly to such good effect that when we sold him he was worth £8m. There weren't many players under Keegan's time in charge whose value didn't increase. On checking the stats, Bassong was 22,with nearly 80 first team appearances behind him. He's not really an example of the kind of problem we're talking about here. I can't recall Keegan being much of a developer of young talent tbh. He tended to buy proven quality. Howey, Watson, Clark, Elliott, Cole, Gillespie, Albert, Pav, Shaka. All young players who developed under KK, some of which actually helped build the foundations of the club's success in the 90s, as opposed to simply making token cup appearances. There's also the likes of Huckerby and Thompson who went on to have very decent careers after leaving our academy. He bought well, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I honestly think most of our youth products are just shit to be honest, just like Shane, who even couldn't start of Birmingham. You can see the youth products from Man Utd or Liverpool etc getting games regularly for championship teams or even EPL relegation contenders, whilst ours can just attract League One at best and sitting on the bench for them. Dummett, whilst labelled as Dumbshit here, probably enjoyed the best loan among our youth products, getting lots of games in SPL, and is probably the best product in his batch --- and yet he is shit. We did ruin some players who has had massive potential, like Vukcic and Bigi, by not developing them properly. But other than these two, I don't think we really "ruin" much. They are just purely shit. Jury still out for Sammy though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 This problem of the 18-21 year old and their difficulties in progressing to the first team is a hot topic with Premiership clubs in general. I don't think Dyke and his feeder clubs is a viable proposition, so I think we're stuck with the loan system, despite it's faults. The standard required now is so high, and the penalties for failure are so great, that you can't really blame managers for buying experienced players from abroad who can fit into the first team much more quickly. Aarons should go on loan. Keegan signed Bassong as a £1m unknown youngster IIRC and then put him in the first team and played him regularly to such good effect that when we sold him he was worth £8m. There weren't many players under Keegan's time in charge whose value didn't increase. On checking the stats, Bassong was 22,with nearly 80 first team appearances behind him. He's not really an example of the kind of problem we're talking about here. I can't recall Keegan being much of a developer of young talent tbh. He tended to buy proven quality. Howey, Watson, Clark, Elliott, Cole, Gillespie, Albert, Pav, Shaka. All young players who developed under KK, some of which actually helped build the foundations of the club's success in the 90s, as opposed to simply making token cup appearances. There's also the likes of Huckerby and Thompson who went on to have very decent careers after leaving our academy. He bought well, too. What we were talking about was the difficulty for managers in the top division, in bringing young players through the ranks into the first team. The first four players you've named were all given their chance by other managers when we were in the Second Division. The others were all bought from other clubs. Keegan certainly had his qualities, but was there any player who came through the ranks at the club, who he gave a first team debut to? Genuine question. I can't think of any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Pretty sad about how Bigi has turned out. Hope Rolando can escape being Pardewed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andybiotics Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Not even on the bench....Obertan made it though :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ahahaha Fuck off, Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He'll start on Tuesday Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He'll start on Tuesday You would hope so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Not even on the bench....Obertan made it though :/ Piss poor from Cock Piss Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard 13 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He'll start on Tuesday And foot the blame when we lose. Magic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Pretty sad about how Bigi has turned out. Hope Rolando can escape being Pardewed. How has he turned out? He is still only twenty, and the last time I saw him play he looked competent enough to contribute to a team somewhere in the world. He's played one competitive club football match since April 2013, so why is he still sitting around here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Pardew sticking two fingers up to the local press. Local press - "pardew needs to bite the bullet and start Aaron's." --> "The king does what the fuck he likes. You demand the king starts a player, the king drops him from the squad. Don't forget your place. I'm the king." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ready or not, he sticks wide and can drive to the byline and deliver a ball. Once again, our play today was too slow, too narrow and not direct enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbnufc Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Called up to the England U20's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Called up to the England U20's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Called up to the England U20's Get in before Jamaica was the plan I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyCisse Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yup, wont count until he makes his full debut though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 One 0-4 away from being eternally blamed for not protecting full-back, will play in FA Cup exit then disappear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Incredible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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