England: Burn and Gordon named in latest squad (Official)

[Guest HTT II]

By the way I love that Southgate and the team are so social aware on matters that exist and are real, it’s proper engagement and shows a side to the game that is important in this day and age.

[SUPERTOON]

5 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Friendlies and qualifiers are not a waste of time on the scale of previous England regimes. One of the reasons why Southgate is the most successful manager in most of our lifetimes - - ahem, sorry, a politician whose only interested in LGBT crap and other woke stuff (I always forget!) - - is the togetherness, spirit and 'club feel' that he's fostered during his time. That vibe wouldn't be as ingrained without these occasions. The matches themselves are probably less important. 

But playing teams like San Marino, Andorra etc are pointless, it’s a waste of everyone’s time. 

Obviously that’s more a fifa/uefa issue in terms of allowing them to be in the same qualifying groups. I’ve always thought they should be made to do some sort of pre qualifying.

 

[Yorkie]

I agree that the matches themselves are the least valuable part of the experience but then again I do think that whole 'waste of time' thing is sometimes a bit overstated. There's no way I can't enjoy watching a team I support win 10-0, and it also enables players like Abraham and Smith-Rowe to get off the mark. 

[jackyboy]

The whole point I'm making is that the with the current players at his disposal we should be winning a trophy

 or two rather than be runners  up.  

[leffe186]

36 minutes ago, jackyboy said:

The whole point I'm making is that the with the current players at his disposal we should be winning a trophy

 or two rather than be runners  up.  

And the whole point we’re making is that that’s silly. You get one chance every two years. There are at least half a dozen really really good teams. You get close and then try your best and sometimes that isn’t quite good enough. Sometimes you get a break and win.

 

He has Pickford as arguably his best keeper FFS. Switching Dan Burn for Maguire, much like Lascelles for Maguire, isn’t going to make a difference. We’ve got a couple of great players, a handful of very good ones, and a really good team spirit.

 

I do wish we had a better tactical coach, tbh, and the one big argument is that we could have beaten Italy maybe with different penalty takers. You just can’t say that any team “should” win a World Cup or be European champions.

[Kid Icarus]

It's mad how quickly the England team has gone from being a bunch of post-golden generation players who aren't up to scratch, to suddenly being so good that Southgate should be winning tournaments with them. It's been mad to see it happen and I can only think that it's happened because Southgate's set a rod for his own back by being much more successful than any England manager over the past 20 to 30 years. 

 

Even if you believe that Southgate's not getting the most out of the players he has, the idea that they should win things is still a bit daft. You could say the same about a handful of teams every time a tournament comes around. That's including teams with more talent than England, which is why there are no teams that should win anything. 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[Wullie]

Southgate's one of the biggest examples of "victim of his own success" I can think of. Took an unproven central midfield pair from Leeds and West Ham to a Euro final, lost on penalties and we're meant to believe it was his fault because it's actually the greatest set of players England have ever had in their history.

 

Since we lost on pens, the implication has to be that even if we'd won the European Championships via that method, he still wouldn't have been good enough because it was his fault we were in a shootout. These people are demented.

 

By some distance he's the most successful manager England have ever had other than Alf Ramsey and that's a fact.

[Jaqen]

France are comfortably the best squad at International level on paper. They should be the only ones with expectations of winning things not England. 

 

Can't deny we've had favourable draws under Southgate though, I guess that's where some of the frustration comes from. There's a sense that we blew it giving the relatively 'easy' run ins. At the same time people are quick to only pin the blame on Southgate for the losses and not give him credit for getting us to that point in the first place. We were tactically spot on in quite a few games where his selection was criticized prematch. 

[Rich]

It's only his in-game management that lets him down, IMO, he gets everything else spot-on.

[St. Maximin]

Personally I love the bloke, but I agree with some of the criticism he got from that Euros final. I think a lot of people were just frustrated and there were some knee-jerk reactions after the final, but at the same time as we might with players, it’s very reasonable to criticise anyone when they’re doing things wrong, even if their standards are normally high. Same with Rafa for example also - did terrific here but he made some questionable decisions irrespective of his record, but criticising them shouldn’t mean you want the guy sacked. Not that people are saying that here, but I know some people who react like that. 
 

Still think we should have won with that home advantage, but it’s still anyone’s game on the day. Onwards and upwards. Can’t knock that record and we’ve gone from semis to finalists, so naturally we’ll win the next World Cup anyway. 

[Pilko]

I'm still furious with Rashford over Southgate. The amount of high pressure pens he's rattled into the onion bag in the past for club and country, and he tries to be clever in a fucking final with the stuttery paused run up shite.

[wormy]

27 minutes ago, Pilko said:

I'm still furious with Rashford over Southgate. The amount of high pressure pens he's rattled into the onion bag in the past for club and country, and he tries to be clever in a fucking final with the stuttery paused run up shite.

 

On the wider topic, does anyone know if there's been any kind of study on the stutter run up and whether it actually has a notably different success rate to a normal run up?

 

Feels like there's more chance of the penalty taker psyching themself out than the 'keeper.

[Astroblack]

47 minutes ago, Pilko said:

I'm still furious with Rashford over Southgate. The amount of high pressure pens he's rattled into the onion bag in the past for club and country, and he tries to be clever in a fucking final with the stuttery paused run up shite.

that was the pen that disappointed me most. Even if you told me to pick five players for another shootout, I’d still pick him. I was in disbelief when he missed. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, jackyboy said:

The whole point I'm making is that the with the current players at his disposal we should be winning a trophy

 or two rather than be runners  up.  

We are no better or have no more right than France & Italy the last two tournaments.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

I know it's only two friendlies, but Johnstone's withdrawn though illness now. Is this how far down the pecking order we're going?

 

 

[Guest neesy111]

Jesus.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Which keepers are unavailable for him to make it? 

[Joey Linton]

17 minutes ago, neesy111 said:

Jesus.

Better on crosses than Forster. 

[geordie_b]

Great news but only because I have an excuse to post this classic 

 

 

[Fantail Breeze]

On 22/03/2022 at 12:39, Wullie said:

Southgate's one of the biggest examples of "victim of his own success" I can think of. Took an unproven central midfield pair from Leeds and West Ham to a Euro final, lost on penalties and we're meant to believe it was his fault because it's actually the greatest set of players England have ever had in their history.

 

Since we lost on pens, the implication has to be that even if we'd won the European Championships via that method, he still wouldn't have been good enough because it was his fault we were in a shootout. These people are demented.

 

By some distance he's the most successful manager England have ever had other than Alf Ramsey and that's a fact.

 

It’s always seemingly natural to jump to the complete hyperbole opinion when people offer an alternate viewpoint.

 

What people are saying is that he’s done well, but because of his limitations tactically, we’ve not done as well as we could have (i.e win something).

 

He’s a great speaker and I can imagine he breeds spirit and morale etc. but we’re set up far too defensively and his in-game management is appalling, imo.

 

I’ve enjoyed the success that we’ve had, but equally I don’t want us to go through this good period without actually winning something. 

 

I don’t necessarily think he needs to go, but he needs someone beside him with a bit more about them, I don’t think his backroom staff has what it needs.

 

But I’m never happy and always want to do better than we are.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The Leeds and West Ham thing is a slightly odd point though, Philips and Rice are both excellent players. Maybe not as individually talented as Gerrard/Lampard, but more intelligent and drilled from kids to play their part in this kind of team. Not that any of that is a negative for Southgate. 
 

No team can ever say they ‘should’ win an international trophy IMO. It’s so difficult and so much randomness is involved. 

[huss9]

southgate seems to have this "trying to avoid defeat" rather than "going for the win" mantra.

hope he's  learnt from the euros final.

fucking blew it big time that day.

[wormy]

How can North Macedonia manage it and England can't? Southgate out, Angelovski in. 

[The College Dropout]

Rashford’s pen hit the inside of the post right? Inches away from being the perfect penalty.   
 

He did the same stutter and disguise to the bottom left penalty in the Europa league final and it went in. 
 

Just one of those things. 
 

England have never been so blessed with attacking talent. 

[Cronky]

I would agree that overall this is the best England squad since 1966 and possibly beyond that.  I think Southgate has forged a good team spirit and hasn't been pressured and swayed by the media as other England managers have done. But....

 

I'd question the policy of two basically defensive players in Phillips and Rice in CM. I'm hoping that Bellingham can now step up into Rice's position. 

 

I'd also pick a more skilful player than Walker. At international level, he looks scared of the ball. I'd pick White if it was a three, and James if it was a four.