Guest neesy111 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 The deflection and whataboutism from a lot of our supporters is getting on my nerves a bit like. "Sheffield United" or "they own your paper" being the main ones. But the suggestion that because our team is Newcastle United we implicitly support what the Saudis do in their country and in their foreign policy is also annoying me. Going to be a hypocrite and use whataboutism myself but those who rightly or wrongly attended matches under Ashley were never criticised from the press and countless others on social media for being implicit in what goes on in his warehouses. While that doesn't compare to Saudi actions and laws, it's still a bit annoying. That Squires comic has proper irritated me, suggesting that fans should walk away from Newcastle United which has been a cornerstone of community in its 127 year (or 114 depending how you view things) existence is drivel; we as fans can't control who buys NUFC, Mike Ashley does. Yet it's the fans who are getting it in the neck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I like the idea that journalists aren't criticising them because they literally dismember their colleagues, but because they hate Newcastle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/sport/football/amnesty-international-writes-to-premier-league-about-newcastle-takeover/21/04/ Think the idea that pleases me most is the ground potentially looking like that again. Changing the Newcastle United font to match Sports Direct was such a dick move. Totally unnecessary. Yep. It’s a fucking tacky font and clearly done on the cheap. They didn’t even clean it underneath so you can still see the old font ffs. I was working for the club as a coach doing photos and signing kids to the Academy the day it was taken down. I remember putting a post on here and it was meltdown Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 The deflection and whataboutism from a lot of our supporters is getting on my nerves a bit like. "Sheffield United" or "they own your paper" being the main ones. But the suggestion that because our team is Newcastle United we implicitly support what the Saudis do in their country and in their foreign policy is also annoying me. Going to be a hypocrite and use whataboutism myself but those who rightly or wrongly attended matches under Ashley were never criticised from the press and countless others on social media for being implicit in what goes on in his warehouses. While that doesn't compare to Saudi actions and laws, it's still a bit annoying. That Squires comic has proper irritated me, suggesting that fans should walk away from Newcastle United which has been a cornerstone of community in its 127 year (or 114 depending how you view things) existence is drivel; we as fans can't control who buys NUFC, Mike Ashley does. Yet it's the fans who are getting it in the neck. I would agree with this. I think it's outrageous that football supporters are being put in this position where it does feel like you have to make a choice, and that's the fault of the football authorities for letting this happen. We'd think it was totally unpalatable if a British political party bought a football club in England, and it would absolutely feel like a political choice to attend/support that particular club in those circumstances. How on Earth have we let foreign governments buy them up? Jesus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Yes they have. Name them I mean you can try and gaslight us all with whatever definition you're working with, but to me and I think a lot of others, responding to legitimate criticisms of a regime by pointing out the sins of other regimes, claiming hypocrisy, bias against Newcastle, jealousy, or any other reason to deflect away from addressing the actual substance of the criticisms is very transparently sticking up for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Saudi Arabia is one of the UK’s most important trading partners. The UK exported £6 billion worth of goods and services to Saudi Arabia in 2018 (ONS, 2019). British companies present in the market include Shell, GlaxoSmithKline, BAE Systems, Rolls Royce and Unilever. What sanctions have the British government got in place against the Saudis currently? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Little Waster Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Yes they have. Name them I mean you can try and gaslight us all with whatever definition you're working with, but to me and I think a lot of others, responding to legitimate criticisms of a regime by pointing out the sins of other regimes, claiming hypocrisy, bias against Newcastle, jealousy, or any other reason to deflect away from addressing the actual substance of the criticisms is very transparently sticking up for them. Nah , sticking up for the Saudis would be more like " The Saudis - a great bunch of lads " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Each to their own. I view that as sticking up for them, you don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I like the idea that journalists aren't criticising them because they literally dismember their colleagues, but because they hate Newcastle. They don't hate Newcastle man. Again, there are different journalists, there are heavyweight political journalists who write everyday about what goes on in the world, nowt to do with football usually. Then there are back page journalists who do tend to favour certain clubs and no doubt follow their own behind the scenes as well. I don't hate Man City, but when they were bought up by the Arabs, I do admit I felt a bit jealous knowing they were going to be on a different playing field to us. Oh, and I do get it that this is a bit different in that we are actually being bought by an investment group which is a front for an actual government which has values we don't agree with. But if they are passed fit to be rightful owners of a British football club I am not going to lie, I am pleased it is going to be us rather than Man U or Chelsea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Yes they have. Name them I mean you can try and gaslight us all with whatever definition you're working with, but to me and I think a lot of others, responding to legitimate criticisms of a regime by pointing out the sins of other regimes, claiming hypocrisy, bias against Newcastle, jealousy, or any other reason to deflect away from addressing the actual substance of the criticisms is very transparently sticking up for them. There is definitely hypocrisy from specific journalists, they weren't going all in on Man U at the time. Aren't the Saudi's Man U's longest commerical partner too? I understand where some people are coming from but I think journalists need to be calling out everyone including the UK government if they are going down that route. Not just fans who probably don't understand what all of the fuss is about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I don’t think anyone has stuck up for them. More pointed out other bigger abusers of humanitarian rights who go almost unchallenged. The concentration camps in China are abhorrent, their execution rate is multiples of the Saudis and yet it’s swept under the carpet. Amnesty International and everyone else are using the alleged takeover as an easy way of making news and unfortunately it appears it’s us the fans that are the fall guys in all of this. I think everyone will admit there’s bigger fish to fry than the Saudis but they’re a harder target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Yes they have. Name them I mean you can try and gaslight us all with whatever definition you're working with, but to me and I think a lot of others, responding to legitimate criticisms of a regime by pointing out the sins of other regimes, claiming hypocrisy, bias against Newcastle, jealousy, or any other reason to deflect away from addressing the actual substance of the criticisms is very transparently sticking up for them. There is definitely hypocrisy from specific journalists, they weren't going all in on Man U at the time. Aren't the Saudi's Man U's longest commerical partner too? I understand where some people are coming from but I think journalists need to be calling out everyone including the UK government if they are going down that route. Not just fans who probably don't understand what all of the fuss is about. I don't doubt that there'll be some hypocritical journalists like, I just don't think it's relevant at all or changes anything about the legitimacy of what they're highlighting. Imo the question should be 'is what they're saying true?' not 'is this person telling the truth also a hypocrite?' And that's before getting onto the claims of hypocrisy, double standards etc being levelled at those journalists who've actually consistently spoken out about the Saudis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I don’t think anyone has stuck up for them. More pointed out other bigger abusers of humanitarian rights who go almost unchallenged. The concentration camps in China are abhorrent, their execution rate is multiples of the Saudis and yet it’s swept under the carpet. Amnesty International and everyone else are using the alleged takeover as an easy way of making news and unfortunately it appears it’s us the fans that are the fall guys in all of this. I think everyone will admit there’s bigger fish to fry than the Saudis but they’re a harder target. The Chinese government aren't currently buying a Premier League football club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInfiniteOdyssey Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Sorry like, but if you're a journalist who also happens to be a Manu or Liverpool fan, and you suddenly see Newcastle Utd getting owners who can possibly blow you out of the water when it comes to transfer fees, you are going to feel threatened. It's just human nature. Let me be clear, that doesn't mean what they are saying is wrong, but it also doesn't mean they are saying it for the right reasons. Don't talk about the people bombing childrens hospitals unless you don't support any football clubs, is essentially the road you're heading down because there's no team in Europe that won't fear us blowing them out of the water by that line of reasoning. By all means talk about people bombing childrens hospitals if that is what you are passionate about, more power to you. But if you are a mackem who has suddenly grown a conscience and decided to give me a lecture about this newly discovered abomination, then I reserve the right to be sceptical. But I'm not though, I'm quite literally one of your own who has the same concerns as these journalists. The things being highlighted don't hold any less merit because of who's saying it if it can be verified as true. Shooting the messenger and ignoring the substance is how dafties in America have ended up automatically defending war criminals and a corrupt media, solely because Trump's one of the people pointing it out. # I wasn't literally talking about you, I was using the mackem example to make a point. I'm sure you get the point I'm making though. Out of curiosity, are you going to stop following the team all together if this proposed takeover goes through? The more I think about this takeover, the harder it is to acquiesce with. Yet at the same time, it seems like any such takeover in the modern game was destined to be from a source as unpalatable as this. My stance on it at the moment is that I'll continue doing what I'm doing at the moment, not give the club any money and I'll watch us on Telly. I'll see what happens from there, but none of this sits right with me and my concern is that so many of us are so desperate to get rid of Ashley that our fans and the city have done a deal with the devil. I dunno if I'm being hyperbolic, but when I was thinking about it last night I was more worried about what the impact of having someone like that associated with and in and amongst our city could be tbh. Before we even know what the full extent of that'll be, overnight we have a significant amount of people sticking up for war criminals who wouldn't have dreamed of doing so yesterday calling other people hypocrites for pointing out. I'm laughing, but it's shit tbh. Fair enough and I echo those sentiments to a large degree, however I feel that the city will actually be strengthened through their ownership in all criteria, bar morality obviously, be it via greater investment projects in the city or the promise of future success by the club. I do feel that a large proportion of these reactions from our fans is down to the initial euphoria of getting rid of Ashley. The deflection tactics that have been employed by many, exposes how viewed through such a narrow lens, this is purely a celebratory event, we've got our team back etc. Souring this party by highlighting Saudi abuses provokes an almost desperate response from those trying to tune out all other considerations I understand why this happens, we all want success for NUFC, but the irrationality of ignoring these concerns not only stifles meaningful discussion and recognition over the moral quandries, but manifests in kooky conspiracy theories about media bias and false equivalencies to Ashley's business practices Having said all that, there's little we as NUFC fans can really do, and as others have stated ideally, we shouldn't have to choose between sacrificing our personal attachment to the club and upholding moral values This hasn't been helped by various media outlets framing this takeover in such reductive language. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Yes they have. Name them I mean you can try and gaslight us all with whatever definition you're working with, but to me and I think a lot of others, responding to legitimate criticisms of a regime by pointing out the sins of other regimes, claiming hypocrisy, bias against Newcastle, jealousy, or any other reason to deflect away from addressing the actual substance of the criticisms is very transparently sticking up for them. There is definitely hypocrisy from specific journalists, they weren't going all in on Man U at the time. Aren't the Saudi's Man U's longest commerical partner too? I understand where some people are coming from but I think journalists need to be calling out everyone including the UK government if they are going down that route. Not just fans who probably don't understand what all of the fuss is about. I don't doubt that there'll be some hypocritical journalists like, I just don't think it's relevant at all or changes anything about the legitimacy of what they're highlighting. Imo the question should be 'is what they're saying true?' not 'is this person telling the truth also a hypocrite?' And that's before getting onto the claims of hypocrisy, double standards etc being levelled at those journalists who've actually consistently spoken out about the Saudis. I have no problem with any journalist who has consistently spoken out about the Saudis. I think Miguel Delaney is the one that stands out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I don’t think anyone has stuck up for them. More pointed out other bigger abusers of humanitarian rights who go almost unchallenged. The concentration camps in China are abhorrent, their execution rate is multiples of the Saudis and yet it’s swept under the carpet. Amnesty International and everyone else are using the alleged takeover as an easy way of making news and unfortunately it appears it’s us the fans that are the fall guys in all of this. I think everyone will admit there’s bigger fish to fry than the Saudis but they’re a harder target. The Chinese government aren't currently buying a Premier League football club. Why can people not understand this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I don't see the problem with speaking out against the Saudis now they're in the news. That's the price they pay for drawing attention to themselves. Are we really confident that the attention on us is greater than other clubs? Sounds like confirmation bias to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I don’t think anyone has stuck up for them. More pointed out other bigger abusers of humanitarian rights who go almost unchallenged. The concentration camps in China are abhorrent, their execution rate is multiples of the Saudis and yet it’s swept under the carpet. Amnesty International and everyone else are using the alleged takeover as an easy way of making news and unfortunately it appears it’s us the fans that are the fall guys in all of this. I think everyone will admit there’s bigger fish to fry than the Saudis but they’re a harder target. The Chinese government aren't currently buying a Premier League football club. That’s alright then. I forgive them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I don’t think anyone has stuck up for them. More pointed out other bigger abusers of humanitarian rights who go almost unchallenged. The concentration camps in China are abhorrent, their execution rate is multiples of the Saudis and yet it’s swept under the carpet. Amnesty International and everyone else are using the alleged takeover as an easy way of making news and unfortunately it appears it’s us the fans that are the fall guys in all of this. I think everyone will admit there’s bigger fish to fry than the Saudis but they’re a harder target. The Chinese government aren't currently buying a Premier League football club. That’s alright then. I forgive them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Our fans are embarrassing themselves over this like, I’ve accepted my hypocrisy but people having a go at amnesty international ffs Yep. Can't understand the concept that we can be happy that Ashley is finally fucking off and we're going to be run by people with ambition for the club and city while resenting various Saudi policies and acts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Our fans are embarrassing themselves over this like, I’ve accepted my hypocrisy but people having a go at amnesty international ffs Yep. Just hold your hands up and say it man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Haven’t seen it myself but apparently people have been writing on amnesty international letter saying “grass”. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Can't believe Amnesty International are getting slagged for using the takeover to attention seek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Our fans are embarrassing themselves over this like, I’ve accepted my hypocrisy but people having a go at amnesty international ffs Is this on twitter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Football fans on Twitter really aren't the best people to pay attention to over this kind of thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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