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The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

UncleBingo

by UncleBingo
in Football

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TRon

TRon

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chris_R said:

Ultimately, fans of other clubs want Newcastle fans to be more angry about the ownership of Newcastle than they themselves are willing to be about the Saudi Grand Prix or Saudi boxing fights.

 

Because ultimately it's not about concerns over sportswashing at all, it's just about knowing there's nothing they can do over our ownership and likely future investment and so they're wanting us to do what they can't: To force our owners out, to shoot ourselves in the foot so they can pull the ladder up again, and so that we can go back to where they think we "belong".

 

When we refuse to do this, they get angry. I get it. I've been angry at every "suger daddy" takeover in the league since Jack Walker. But let's recognise their anger for what it is and dismiss it accordingly.

 

 

 

 

You also know that 90% of fans wish their own clubs had been bought by PIF instead of Newcastle. I'm sure there would be a very small percentage of them who would be outraged enough to stop supporting the club as well, but money calls the shots, and it has done since Qatari and Russian money snatched the PL glory over the last 20 years.

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St. Maximin

St. Maximin

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

But buying a football club should be more than a 'business transaction'. So many clubs are bought and looted they are community assets not pure businesses. They are built on community loyality and tradition and so have been exploited. The reasons I have outlined a few posts back. The idea that buying it is purely a legal issue and therefore noone should be able to stop it is poor in my opinion. 

 

They have invested far and wide because partially if they are embedded in western economies it is harder for them to be sanctioned, partially I am sure it is to make money somewhere, partially to exert some influence on businesses they have invested in. 

 

I have no problem with anyone not being concerned about the sportwashing, as outlined above, it's not a business one can expect people to just stop going to, it is embedded in the fabric of peoples lives too much. If the argument from our fans though is they're not sportswashing though I would challenge that because that implies somewhat that you would have a problem with it if it is sportwashing, and i don't really know what definition of sportswashing there is apart from what is going on with our club. 

 

I would argue perfectly reasonable to also argue it is sportswashing but it doesn't work, all it does is keep the conversation about saudi araba having issues in their governance in the public sphere. I am not sure where i stand on that but I am resolved if I am going to enjoy the benefits to try and publically not be taken in by them. 

Fair, all good points, though personally I don't really hear much about sanctions avoidance from the critics. I mostly hear about how sportwashing improves a reputation by deflecting negative attention, with the idea countries can commit atrocities behind the front of a football club, which to me doesn't really make sense due to the added media exposure. I can understand the issue of sanctions avoidance (compared to Russia, for example, who are not our allies), though as has been mentioned the greater media exposure and economic connections could help show they cannot continue to behave as they do and get away with it.

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Stifler

Stifler

Posted
Posted

PIF are wanting to use Trumps golf courses for the LIV tour. Of course they cost up to him, for what it’s worth our chairman also follows Biden on Twitter and no doubt would be open to more dialog with Biden if he were to accept it.

 

Of course none of this means fuck all. I don my condone nor endorse Trump, just as much as anything else. I support NUFC.

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jwclark2342

jwclark2342

Posted
Posted

Everyone is so focused on Saudi Arabia.  Why can’t our relationship with them work the other way around?  Why can’t Newcastle be a positive experience for them to learn?  Support the club and support our culture.    Let them see and maybe they start asking questions.  Ranting and protesting will do nothing to change them.  If you’re still uncomfortable, you better research everything else PIF is invested in.

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Tiresias

Tiresias

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, jwclark2342 said:

Everyone is so focused on Saudi Arabia.  Why can’t our relationship with them work the other way around?  Why can’t Newcastle be a positive experience for them to learn?  Support the club and support our culture.    Let them see and maybe they start asking questions.  Ranting and protesting will do nothing to change them.  If you’re still uncomfortable, you better research everything else PIF is invested in.

 

Here I go round in circle again.

 

I hope there can be some positive cultural exchange that way of course but I seriously doubt it, but if it happens that's cool. Having said that I am not sitting here thinking yes the western culture needs to dominate rest of the world. It is more a case that the values of locking up anyone who disagrees with them and lgbtq folk (and worse) is reprehensible to me and I makes me queasy to think that we are being used to make that look good. 

 

Nobody has any pretense that protesting will affect PIF. the main thing is it might do some light pressure to force them to adopt positions like the rainbow laces campaign and the like that then filter backwards like you say above. As I have said many times I don't think football clubs should be owned for political purposes, and I think some level of keeping this in public conversation is necessary to avoid it just being super normal that fucking saudi arabia own a football club and to undermine attempts to sportwash. 

 

I do not think one is morally obliged to love the owner of your football club. But I had no say nor did any fan and it is too important to me to have my enjoyment of the club taken away from me. I am sure non NUFC fans will say that is a moral copout, I largely agree, but so is my eating meat, driving a petrol car and enjoying western civilisation built on plenty of blood money. It's a lame compromise that doesn't stand up much but I'm just a human trying to stay above water not a saint. I have compromised that i will enjoy this somewhat but I will also not shut up that I don't like that our owners would chuck me in prison if i was in Saudi Arabia (fyi, I am gay)

 

I also do not for a second resent any toon fan who wants to not give a shit about this, everyone should enjoy it and I am not saying anyone should feel bad. But saying people shouldnt protest cos it doesn't do anything and if we do nothing saudi arabia will become lovely is absolute codswallop. 

 

 

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geordiesteve710

geordiesteve710

Posted
Posted
On 12/11/2022 at 20:28, jwclark2342 said:

Everyone is so focused on Saudi Arabia.  Why can’t our relationship with them work the other way around?  Why can’t Newcastle be a positive experience for them to learn?  Support the club and support our culture.    Let them see and maybe they start asking questions.  Ranting and protesting will do nothing to change them.  If you’re still uncomfortable, you better research everything else PIF is invested in.

 

Ultimately, PIF are responsible for Newcastle United- not the other way round.

 

If the Saudis decide they want to align themselves with western values more then great, but it is unlikely that they will do so as a consequence of owning the football club. And if they don't, it certainly shouldn't reflect badly on NUFC or on Newcastle fans for supporting the club - end of the day I'm a fan of NUFC, not PIF or the Saudi state. The club has its own culture, which is inclusive to all, which the owners should respect (and so far have done.) For example, if the club stopped supporting rainbow laces or allowing unmarried women to attend games etc at the request of the owners (they won't by the way, that's not why they bought us, I'm just speaking hypothetically) then that would make me seriously question if I wanted to continue to support the club.

 

There's nothing about supporting the club that means I have to inform the internet 8 times a day that "AcTuAlLy KhAsSoGhI wAs A tErRoRiSt" in support of the owners, and those that do are fair game for ridicule.

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