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Sven Botman

The Prophet

by The Prophet
in Football

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Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I mean it's to be expected man, don't think it's that big of a deal. The good thing is that with the way the club is now, he's going to love being a part of it, and that is far more important than what he knew about it previously. These are all really young guys.

 

With more recent success the club will become more recognisable, I mean just look at Man City. No one was joining them initially because they were enamoured by their history. 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree. It was just quite striking how we're pretty much a fresh entity to him. Slightly different because he's English, but contrast with the somewhat older Isaac Hayden who was talking about how he still remembered Newcastle from his youth when he caught the tail end of our European campaigns and still thought of us as being one of the traditional big boys when he came here.

 

Like I say, no problem at all with Botman for that.

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Milanista

Milanista

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, HTT II said:

Again I rate him, but I don’t think he is someone to build a sustainable title winning league team, especially here, and he’s kind of blown it with that Chelsea squad last season which on paper was arguably the strongest and with the most depth. It does show how, in Europe and cups, it’s not always about having the best team on paper, the best players or even the best manager, your team pissed all over Rafa’s Liverpool in Istanbul player for player, but yous lost. Again the true barometer is the domestic league, and LFC as European Champions couldn’t win the league and nor will Chelsea under Tuchel.

If I wanted to be fair to Tuchel, injuries really derailed his season. His offense is really predicated on his wing-backs, and without them, his system crumbles. Personally? I think that underlines that he lacks imagination, the ability to innovate, and the skill to make the best out of bad situations.

 

I disagree, I think the CL is the ultimate barometer of teams, because in a league, if you're a big team, most of your games are going to be against teams that have less resources than you do, worse players, it's about whether you are consistent, and there's obviously a huge value in the league.

 

But in the CL, even the small teams aren't pushovers. Sure, you'll play an AEK Athens or Club Brugge, but they can surprise you. The knock-out rounds are two-legged ties, and if it was single game elimination, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

 

Istanbul was only possible because of Gerrard diving for a penalty. Without that penalty, Milan would have won. If an Italian had dived like that, it would have been described as "dark arts" (the new term of art in England it seems) and cheating--we were the better team, in fact, we were the best team in the world from 2002-2007, and should have won the CL every year. In 2006 we faced Barca in the semis, and as per usual, Barca had ref help, Shevchenko had a perfectly good goal scored taken out which would have allowed us to progress, as we would have smashed that Arsenal team. In 2007, we played cautious, and outplayed Liverpool. Their consolation goal was offside, anyway.

 

Maybe it's because there have been so many scandals in Italy with league titles that I don't value them as much? Or that Milan seems to be the equivalent of Liverpool, where our CL glory clouds our judgment?

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LionOfGosforth

LionOfGosforth

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Milanista said:

If I wanted to be fair to Tuchel, injuries really derailed his season. His offense is really predicated on his wing-backs, and without them, his system crumbles. Personally? I think that underlines that he lacks imagination, the ability to innovate, and the skill to make the best out of bad situations.

 

I disagree, I think the CL is the ultimate barometer of teams, because in a league, if you're a big team, most of your games are going to be against teams that have less resources than you do, worse players, it's about whether you are consistent, and there's obviously a huge value in the league.

 

But in the CL, even the small teams aren't pushovers. Sure, you'll play an AEK Athens or Club Brugge, but they can surprise you. The knock-out rounds are two-legged ties, and if it was single game elimination, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

 

Istanbul was only possible because of Gerrard diving for a penalty. Without that penalty, Milan would have won. If an Italian had dived like that, it would have been described as "dark arts" (the new term of art in England it seems) and cheating--we were the better team, in fact, we were the best team in the world from 2002-2007, and should have won the CL every year. In 2006 we faced Barca in the semis, and as per usual, Barca had ref help, Shevchenko had a perfectly good goal scored taken out which would have allowed us to progress, as we would have smashed that Arsenal team. In 2007, we played cautious, and outplayed Liverpool. Their consolation goal was offside, anyway.

 

Maybe it's because there have been so many scandals in Italy with league titles that I don't value them as much? Or that Milan seems to be the equivalent of Liverpool, where our CL glory clouds our judgment?

 

I can't speak to that claim but that group with the experience and sheer quality of Maldini, Nesta, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Rui Costa, Shevchenko and I think Crespo (?) was absolutely outstanding and I doubt there were many better.

 

 

Edited by LionOfGosforth

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Happinesstan

Happinesstan

Posted
Posted

Still despise the game as a whole. All the punditry and the gravy train of overpaid idiots justifying the overpaying of idiots. Just happy I can support my club again. I'm not getting too heavily attached, but I'll enjoy the ride.

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Milanista

Milanista

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

I can't speak to that claim but that group with the experience and sheer quality of Maldini, Nesta, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Rui Costa, Shevchenko and I think Crespo (?) was absolutely outstanding.

We also had Kaka, who we added after we won the 02/03 CL, to replace Rui Costa. We also had Cafu, Jankulovski, Oddo, Inzaghi, Stam, Ronaldo (R9), Ambrosini, Kaladze, Dida, Costacurta, Rivaldo, Redondo, and others. Some got injuries, like Redondo, others didn't pan out, like Rivaldo, but

 

After 2007, I think we leaned in to the glamor-side too much. Our two young guns didn't take off, Gourcuff (talent but terrible attitude) and Pato (injuries) and then there was Gilardino, who scored but not enough, and we had Beckham come in (who impressed people) and just transfer after transfer didn't work, even though Thiago Silva came in (huge unexpected hit), but once Berlusconi started building a new super team, really built on Ibrahimovic and Thiago Silva as the backbone, that's when his political career crashed and he stopped putting money into Milan, we sold off Ibra and Silva, and the unraveling began.

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Milanista

Milanista

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, LV said:

How does an Italian guy end up writing more eloquently than most English people?

American schooling, plus my mother moved to America when she was young, while my university and graduate work was all in English.

 

So, I'm nothing special, really. But thank you so much for such nice words.

 

 

Edited by Milanista

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Mountain

Mountain

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Milanista said:

If I wanted to be fair to Tuchel, injuries really derailed his season. His offense is really predicated on his wing-backs, and without them, his system crumbles. Personally? I think that underlines that he lacks imagination, the ability to innovate, and the skill to make the best out of bad situations.

 

I disagree, I think the CL is the ultimate barometer of teams, because in a league, if you're a big team, most of your games are going to be against teams that have less resources than you do, worse players, it's about whether you are consistent, and there's obviously a huge value in the league.

 

But in the CL, even the small teams aren't pushovers. Sure, you'll play an AEK Athens or Club Brugge, but they can surprise you. The knock-out rounds are two-legged ties, and if it was single game elimination, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

 

Istanbul was only possible because of Gerrard diving for a penalty. Without that penalty, Milan would have won. If an Italian had dived like that, it would have been described as "dark arts" (the new term of art in England it seems) and cheating--we were the better team, in fact, we were the best team in the world from 2002-2007, and should have won the CL every year. In 2006 we faced Barca in the semis, and as per usual, Barca had ref help, Shevchenko had a perfectly good goal scored taken out which would have allowed us to progress, as we would have smashed that Arsenal team. In 2007, we played cautious, and outplayed Liverpool. Their consolation goal was offside, anyway.

 

Maybe it's because there have been so many scandals in Italy with league titles that I don't value them as much? Or that Milan seems to be the equivalent of Liverpool, where our CL glory clouds our judgment?

 

I agree with everything but how did he miss this, literally a freak save, incredible.

 

 

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Guest HTT II

Guest HTT II

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Milanista said:

If I wanted to be fair to Tuchel, injuries really derailed his season. His offense is really predicated on his wing-backs, and without them, his system crumbles. Personally? I think that underlines that he lacks imagination, the ability to innovate, and the skill to make the best out of bad situations.

 

I disagree, I think the CL is the ultimate barometer of teams, because in a league, if you're a big team, most of your games are going to be against teams that have less resources than you do, worse players, it's about whether you are consistent, and there's obviously a huge value in the league.

 

But in the CL, even the small teams aren't pushovers. Sure, you'll play an AEK Athens or Club Brugge, but they can surprise you. The knock-out rounds are two-legged ties, and if it was single game elimination, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

 

Istanbul was only possible because of Gerrard diving for a penalty. Without that penalty, Milan would have won. If an Italian had dived like that, it would have been described as "dark arts" (the new term of art in England it seems) and cheating--we were the better team, in fact, we were the best team in the world from 2002-2007, and should have won the CL every year. In 2006 we faced Barca in the semis, and as per usual, Barca had ref help, Shevchenko had a perfectly good goal scored taken out which would have allowed us to progress, as we would have smashed that Arsenal team. In 2007, we played cautious, and outplayed Liverpool. Their consolation goal was offside, anyway.

 

Maybe it's because there have been so many scandals in Italy with league titles that I don't value them as much? Or that Milan seems to be the equivalent of Liverpool, where our CL glory clouds our judgment?

Winning the CL is obvious a statement and a sign you are a top team, with top players and maybe even a top manager, but it’s still a cup knockout competition after the group stages and again, for me, not the true barometer of how good a team is. Winning your domestic (top-flight) league means you are the best team in your country, winning the CL doesn’t mean you are the best team in Europe. Chelsea won it and were nowhere near being the best team here in England and still aren’t. I agree injuries haven’t helped Tuchel, but he’s utilised that squad poorly in my opinion. Hopefully your team will win another CL next season. 

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RodneyCisse

RodneyCisse

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Milanista said:

American schooling, plus my mother moved to America when she was young, while my university and graduate work was all in English.

 

So, I'm nothing special, really. But thank you so much for such nice words.

 

 

 


Another Yank on the forum then, @Mike I think the quota might be maxed out if you want to pack your things up.

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