João Pedro

[Happinesstan]

9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

To go from Diaby and Maddison to Joao Pedro will leave people dissappointed. JP could go on to be better than them both but today it looks like we've lowered our ambitions.

 

 

In an ideal world we'd buy all three. So whilst I understand the disappointment of not getting Diay and Maddison, that's what it is. It's not disappointment at getting Pedro.

[Holmesy]

We've also got to let the market tell us where we are in terms of our own stature to an extent. We are showing ambition by going after Maddison, Diaby and Isak but maybe they're not all that realistic yet. If we can't get our top targets because the prices are inflated, they only want to join teams playing European football, challenging for domestic honours or paying top wages, we either adjust our approach or don't sign anyone.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Holmesy

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

21 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

To go from Diaby and Maddison to Joao Pedro will leave people dissappointed. JP could go on to be better than them both but today it looks like we've lowered our ambitions.

 

 

 

We wont have gone from Diaby or Maddison to Pedro, though, given Pedro is a CF and the other 2 aren't. This would be more like moving from Ekitike to Pedro. Which given their previous experience doesnt feel like it's a drop off in quality or ambition. We're clearly after a younger understudy to Wilson who can also help give us more options. 

 

We're after 3 players in CF/ST, RW and CM. We're obviously, and quite smartly, imo, open to not only different terms of acquisition but also perceived and/or potential qaulity in all 3 roles to be able to improve the starting 11 and overall squad. That's going to be for not only financial/FFP considerations but also team integration. I dont think we've been linked with any CF/ST that would be of the quality in that position of Maddison or Diaby in theirs, because of the quality we already have there. RW and CM we lack that quality so going for better players demanding bigger sums there is obvious. 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Super Duper Branko Strupar

[Rich]

I'd always take that approach, too, because when it does come off, as with Trippier, Bruno, and hopefully Botman, we'll be laughing.

 

While we'll still all be happy enough if the others we bring in improve us as much as Burn and Targett did and continue to do.

[The College Dropout]

14 minutes ago, Rich said:

 

This is fair, like, and it was much the same in January when we thought we were getting Diego Carlos/Botman, Digne, and someone like Isak then ended up with Burn, Targett, and Wood. It was fairly underwhelming but thankfully turned out very well.

 

It's also why I'm still pretty relaxed about everything, though. Only Wood has been a duffer so far, individually speaking, and we've now brought in seven players. If they can keep that sort of record up when not being able to get the #1 targets, for whatever reason, then we'll keep progressing nicely.

 

I don't think we'll be signing anyone without having done plenty of research into them and feeling like they'll improve the squad or first team, it just won't happen under Howe and the others. Pedro will have always been on the list.

I think the club want to avoid the Burn, Targett, Wood type transfer which is why even down the list - it's young players with lots of room for improvement and will likely retain or increase value.

 

Highlighted - But seemingly well down the list. I don't think he significantly improves the first XI. And we desperately need an attacker to improve the XI.

 

As you say, even when we haven't got our primary targets, the back-ups have largely succeeded.

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

 

We wont have gone from Diaby or Maddison to Pedro, though, given Pedro is a CF and the other 2 aren't. This would be more like moving from Ekitike to Pedro. Which given their previous experience doesnt feel like it's a drop off in quality or ambition. We're clearly after a younger understudy to Wilson who can also help give us more options. 

 

We're after 3 players in CF/ST, RW and CM. We're obviously, and quite smartly, imo, open to not only different terms of acquisition but also perceived and/or potential qaulity in all 3 roles to be able to improve the starting 11 and overall squad. That's going to be for not only financial/FFP considerations but also team integration. I dont think we've been linked with any CF/ST that would be of the quality in that position of Maddison or Diaby in theirs, because of the quality we already have there. RW and CM we lack that quality so going for better players demanding bigger sums there is obvious. 

 

 

 

Even this. Hugo's joined PSG and getting minutes. JP is linked to Everton. At this point, one looks considered a much higher regarded prospect than the other. But aye I take your point it's still a similar profile in terms of age and squad role.

 

You are right in that those are midfielders / wingers and JP is a striker. So a part of the frustration is not seeing movement in that RW role which I consider the priority.

[Unbelievable]

19 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Even this. Hugo's joined PSG and getting minutes. JP is linked to Everton. At this point, one looks considered a much higher regarded prospect than the other. But aye I take your point it's still a similar profile in terms of age and squad role.

 

You are right in that those are midfielders / wingers and JP is a striker. So a part of the frustration is not seeing movement in that RW role which I consider the priority.

 

Do you think we could have done any more to get Eikitike in? We outbid PSG, who got him on loan with an option to buy for less than we offered. He just highlights the difficulty we have: we don't have much to offer yet to elite players or elite talents. We're a midtable PL team with a low profile manager, and for the forward position we can't even guarantee them a place in the first XI.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Unbelievable
Typo

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, reefatoon said:

 

That’s the thing. Don’t worry about that as we don’t know what the budget or the plans are. Let’s just see it play out and see what happens. It’s not a time to be worrying, we’ve had 15 years of that. We will have a plan now and I am sure they know what they are wanting to do and how they want to plan it. Onwards and upwards.

 

 

 

 

It's all about how the deals are structured too. For example, our initial bid for João Pedro was a £20 million guaranteed fee with add ons.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean that £20 million is all paid upfront. Most deals just don'work that way.

 

We saw it with the Pope deal where only £3 million came out of this summer's budget. 

 

Similarly structured deals will allow us to get enough players in with the £40 million or whatever they have claimed we have left to spend.

 

The budget is not the issue right now. It is the club wanting to get players in and around the value they think is right, whether or not people agree with that is a different issue. Based on their work so far I trust their judgement.

[KDT]

Ekitike has had 13 minutes over 2 games that they've won 10-2, I wouldn't call that great.

[LV]

1 hour ago, Hanshithispantz said:

There was a lot of talk of teams increasing their asking price in January, I don't know how true it all is but we could just be making a point that we will walk away from deals as soon as clubs go beyond our price. From the outside looking in the perception of us has changed massively.

 

Like we can go in for Madison at our price, what's the worst that can happen? Either we get lucky and they agree, or they refuse and we walk away and the narrative around us continues to change. It's annoying from a fan perspective as part of the transfer window is the spectacle of it all, but from the club's perspective it might make a lot more sense.

Exactly this.

 

 

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

 

Do you think we could have done any more to get Eikitike in? We outbid PSG, who got him on loan with an option to buy for less than we offered. He just highlights the difficulty we have: we don't have much to offer yet to elite players or elite talents. We're a midtable PL team with a low profile manager, and for the forward position we can't even guarantee them a place in the first XI.

 

 

 

No we did our best.

 

But JP being the only tangible attacking target we know as of 16/8 is a tad dissappointing.  Especially since other more established names have been heavily linked.

 

JP,  a quality RW and a quality CM is a solid window.

[KaKa]

26 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

 

We wont have gone from Diaby or Maddison to Pedro, though, given Pedro is a CF and the other 2 aren't. This would be more like moving from Ekitike to Pedro. Which given their previous experience doesnt feel like it's a drop off in quality or ambition. We're clearly after a younger understudy to Wilson who can also help give us more options. 

 

We're after 3 players in CF/ST, RW and CM. We're obviously, and quite smartly, imo, open to not only different terms of acquisition but also perceived and/or potential qaulity in all 3 roles to be able to improve the starting 11 and overall squad. That's going to be for not only financial/FFP considerations but also team integration. I dont think we've been linked with any CF/ST that would be of the quality in that position of Maddison or Diaby in theirs, because of the quality we already have there. RW and CM we lack that quality so going for better players demanding bigger sums there is obvious. 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. This is all clear as day.

 

The Pedro signing has absolutely nothing to do with the Diaby or Madison links.

 

There have been numerous mentions of them being after a young versatile striker, a first team right sided player, and perhaps a midfielder too.

 

Have no idea where the confusion on this is coming from.

[NWMag]

1 hour ago, Lotus said:

Really liked the look of Botman on YT but the fact is he hasn’t played for us.

I’ll be sensible and judge him after a run of games. 

Could have sworn I saw him on the pitch on Saturday 

[toon25]

38 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

We've also got to let the market tell us where we are in terms of our own stature as well to an extent. We are showing ambition by going after Maddison, Diaby and Isak but maybe they're not all that realistic yet. If we can't get our top targets because the prices are inflated, they only want to join teams playing European football, challenging for domestic honours or paying top wages, we either adjust our approach or don't sign anyone.

 

 

 

I suppose the reality is that without chucking money at players of that calibre it'll be a good while before, or if, we ever get there. Chicken and egg.

 

(I don't disagree with your point at all btw).

[Unbelievable]

9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

No we did our best.

 

But JP being the only tangible attacking target we know as of 16/8 is a tad dissappointing.  Especially since other more established names have been heavily linked.

 

JP,  a quality RW and a quality CM is a solid window.

Besides from the fact we are linked to more attacking players what good is it even us knowing? If we know other clubs know and that's partly how we lost Ekitike to PSG and may lose Ramos to Wolves. The club are doing the right thing by targeting high quality players/talents (as evidenced by many of them subsequently moving to clubs of more renown) and operating as quietly as possible in the hope of landing their targets.

 

To suggest that to get in two first team players (RW, CM) and one talented stand-in (ST), probably costing at least another 80m or so combined, would make this window (in which we already spent 67m on three first team players) "solid" rather than mindblowingly fantastic is laughable. How many clubs will bring in half a new first team and spend around 150m do you think, after already spending 88m in January? If that is the expectation level you have for "solid" I wonder what you would classify as "good" or even "excellent" and I would suggest that maybe your expectation level is the problem here rather than the ambition level of the club's new owners.

[Jackie Broon]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

To go from Diaby and Maddison to Joao Pedro will leave people dissappointed. JP could go on to be better than them both but today it looks like we've lowered our ambitions.

 

 

 

A lot of people were disappointed when we missed out on Jeffers and Zenden and settled for Bellamy and Robert instead.

[The Prophet]

2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

There was a lot of talk of teams increasing their asking price in January, I don't know how true it all is but we could just be making a point that we will walk away from deals as soon as clubs go beyond our price. From the outside looking in the perception of us has changed massively.

 

Like we can go in for Madison at our price, what's the worst that can happen? Either we get lucky and they agree, or they refuse and we walk away and the narrative around us continues to change. It's annoying from a fan perspective as part of the transfer window is the spectacle of it all, but from the club's perspective it might make a lot more sense.

 

Yep, a bit of short term pain for long term gain.

[Fantail Breeze]

29 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Exactly. This is all clear as day.

 

The Pedro signing has absolutely nothing to do with the Diaby or Madison links.

 

There have been numerous mentions of them being after a young versatile striker, a first team right sided player, and perhaps a midfielder too.

 

Have no idea where the confusion on this is coming from.

 

What does the Pedro signing mean for the Paquetá signing?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Yep, a bit of short term pain for long term gain.

 

Only question is if it makes good players cheaper or just impossible to sign. 

[Lotus]

I've got to say, there are clubs all over Europe buying young players from £7m to £15m that fill out their squad and some of them go on to become very good players who are worth a lot more. The rest of them do just that, fill out the squads.

Clearly we either don't have any scouts of contacts good enough yet (more than probable) or we have a management committee that is not willing to take any risks. But every club has to take risks. You pay more to mitigate that risk but if clubs always went for the absolute sure fire option the transfer market would be incredibly low volume.

The bar is very low as far as RW goes in our team. We also don't have a DM at all. There are low cost options out there who are better than Murphy and better than nothing.

Given our staff recruitment so far, I'm sure it's something we will address. In the meantime, we will have to watch them lurch around a bit.

[Keegans Export]

1 minute ago, Lotus said:

I've got to say, there are clubs all over Europe buying young players from £7m to £15m that fill out their squad and some of them go on to become very good players who are worth a lot more. The rest of them do just that, fill out the squads.

Clearly we either don't have any scouts of contacts good enough yet (more than probable) or we have a management committee that is not willing to take any risks. But every club has to take risks. You pay more to mitigate that risk but if clubs always went for the absolute sure fire option the transfer market would be incredibly low volume.

The bar is very low as far as RW goes in our team. We also don't have a DM at all. There are low cost options out there who are better than Murphy and better than nothing.

Given our staff recruitment so far, I'm sure it's something we will address. In the meantime, we will have to watch them lurch around a bit.

10 months ago our squad looked like certs for relegation. Our focus is (and should be) on improving the starting XI first and foremost.

 

I've got no doubt that if you asked Nickson & Ashworth to bring in a "squad filler" CM and RW they'd find someone, but why throw money at the bench when the first team needs to improve so much? Clearly we're working with a fairly strict budget, we don't have the luxury of spending chunks of it on players who might become good players.

[Unbelievable]

2 minutes ago, Lotus said:

I've got to say, there are clubs all over Europe buying young players from £7m to £15m that fill out their squad and some of them go on to become very good players who are worth a lot more. The rest of them do just that, fill out the squads.

Clearly we either don't have any scouts of contacts good enough yet (more than probable) or we have a management committee that is not willing to take any risks. But every club has to take risks. You pay more to mitigate that risk but if clubs always went for the absolute sure fire option the transfer market would be incredibly low volume.

The bar is very low as far as RW goes in our team. We also don't have a DM at all. There are low cost options out there who are better than Murphy and better than nothing.

Given our staff recruitment so far, I'm sure it's something we will address. In the meantime, we will have to watch them lurch around a bit.

 

That really sounds like an oversimplification to me. It is true of course that many clubs in other leagues and other countries are spending significantly less than PL clubs, but only the very best of those competitions (Championship, League One, Eredivisie, etc.) are good enough to cut it at PL level nowadays. Exceptions exist of course, but there really aren't many players in that price bracket that are guaranteed to do a better job than the likes of Murphy is doing for us.

[Flip]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Even this. Hugo's joined PSG and getting minutes. JP is linked to Everton. At this point, one looks considered a much higher regarded prospect than the other. But aye I take your point it's still a similar profile in terms of age and squad role.

 

You are right in that those are midfielders / wingers and JP is a striker. So a part of the frustration is not seeing movement in that RW role which I consider the priority.

 

He's really getting loads of minutes. 13 minutes in total, all 13 after PSG have been ahead by around 20 goals in each game. And he's looked very poor in those 13 minutes.   Joao Pedro is actually more proven than Hugo at this point. Hugo Ekitike failed miserably in the Danish league at the age of 18 while Joao Pedro scored 9 in the Championship.  

[HaydnNUFC]

44 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

What does the Pedro signing mean for the Paquetá signing?

 

[Zero]

I don’t get the hate. Joao Pedro kinda resembles the path for Richarlison. 2-30m is not a ridiculous price and he could become a solid EPL starter in a year or two. It’s definitely not a bad signing.