RobsonsWonderland Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, 80 said: We're definitely lacking a bit of our old bite. I think we are managing our fitness and suspensions by holding off our aggressive play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RobsonsWonderland said: I think we are managing our fitness and suspensions by holding off our aggressive play. Possibly. But I was thinking more of ruthlessness. Certainly the referees have cracked down on dark arts so we're avoiding them, but even putting them aside, we were bullying our way to results last season (think of us pushing Havertz around at home against Chelsea), and spikiness doesn't seem to be so much a part of our game now. We're focused on crushing teams with our quality, which is fine when it works. Edited October 30, 2023 by 80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 23 hours ago, RobsonsWonderland said: I think we are managing our fitness and suspensions by holding off our aggressive play. I agree with this but also agree our game management has been far more naive this season compared to last. As a football fan I’m happy the yellow cards etc are having an effect in most the games with regards to this for all the teams. Fake head injuries are still annoying but seems the least risk free way to time waste. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Feel like we're going to see a return of some antics with the fixture crunch and injury situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Made it really stop-start after Villa scored. Nicely managed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLvOR Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Glad to see us get back to this. Been way too nice to play against for a while now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Where has this gone this season? No yellow cards against Arsenal at the weekend, only six fouls against us in the entire match. Last season we would have broken the play up with niggly fouls, wasted time early on... it feels like that cynical element has gone missing from our game. I'm sure this is mainly personell based (and because Bruno is on 9 yellows), but I do think it's been the case all season that we've generally been "nicer" - Villa (a) and Arsenal (h) spring to mind as the only real exceptions. Last season we were uncomfortable to play against, annoying, got under teams' skins. It became a big part of our "us against the world" identity. Surely it isn't all just down to Joelinton's absence? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) Bruno can't make a tackle, Miley is a kid, Longstaff can't get close enough to foul anyone, Joelinton is injured, Pope is injured, Wilson is injured. Think that takes care of almost every player who was involved in anything, except maybe Trippier. Maybe the bigger picture is that we've been so focused on crisis management this season that we haven't had a chance to impose ourselves and focus on our culture. Hard to say but usually shithousery works for teams who are feeling confident, assured in themselves and on top of their opponents. Edited February 26 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: Bruno can't make a tackle, Miley is a kid, Longstaff can't get close enough to foul anyone, Joelinton is injured, Pope is injured, Wilson is injured. Think that takes care of almost every player who was involved in anything, except maybe Trippier. Murphy too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I take the point on personnel absences, but there's clearly been a policy choice in reducing it. Howe said as much in the last press conference, that he thinks rule changes make it a less viable option this season. Personally, I think we've been playing with too many smiles all season. It's understandable in many ways, especially when you look at individual circumstances like Gordon who is still learning to control himself and looking to shake his old reputation. But the sum total has meant we've looked like softies a lot of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Andy said: Where has this gone this season? No yellow cards against Arsenal at the weekend, only six fouls against us in the entire match. Last season we would have broken the play up with niggly fouls, wasted time early on... it feels like that cynical element has gone missing from our game. I'm sure this is mainly personell based (and because Bruno is on 9 yellows), but I do think it's been the case all season that we've generally been "nicer" - Villa (a) and Arsenal (h) spring to mind as the only real exceptions. Last season we were uncomfortable to play against, annoying, got under teams' skins. It became a big part of our "us against the world" identity. Surely it isn't all just down to Joelinton's absence? It's much harder to shithouse when the other team is able to sit back on a lead after 15 odd mins like Arsenal were. We just didn't ship goals in that manner last season. The difference with the two games you mention is that we didn't concede until late on in one game, at which point we were more or less home and hosed, or at all in the other. Shithousing's a very different proposition when you're constantly having to play your way back into games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 13 minutes ago, 80 said: I take the point on personnel absences, but there's clearly been a policy choice in reducing it. Howe said as much in the last press conference, that he thinks rule changes make it a less viable option this season. Personally, I think we've been playing with too many smiles all season. It's understandable in many ways, especially when you look at individual circumstances like Gordon who is still learning to control himself and looking to shake his old reputation. But the sum total has meant we've looked like softies a lot of the time. Shithousing is a mindset and we've lost it. IMO are identity should be along with lines of intensity (as it is), but real physical dominance. We run harder than other teams, we are aggressive, we are nasty, niggly. We've lost that almost entirely with Joelinton out. We need to get that attitude back. Saying that - it's hard to have that attitude when you can't compete physically. Our best games have had that attitude and that's because we've competed and won physically. On the weekend, Arsenal looked too quick, too strong for us all over the pitch. You can't shithouse if you can't compete. Same happens to Atleti when they are just off it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Saw some of the Real vs Sevilla game. Real are king shithouses but Ramos was the best to ever do it. He was bang at it - trying his best to referee the game for the ref. It almost worked. That's one thing we are better with when Jamaal is around. Physically dominant. Always in the ear of the ref. But manages to seem reasonable enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 52 minutes ago, 80 said: I take the point on personnel absences, but there's clearly been a policy choice in reducing it. Howe said as much in the last press conference, that he thinks rule changes make it a less viable option this season. Personally, I think we've been playing with too many smiles all season. It's understandable in many ways, especially when you look at individual circumstances like Gordon who is still learning to control himself and looking to shake his old reputation. But the sum total has meant we've looked like softies a lot of the time. Agree with this. There were a few times on Saturday where it seemed like we were reluctant to put a challenge in, commit to the shirt pull or trip. At times, we even pulled out of tackles. Arsenal were the polar opposite and stopped quite a few of our rare counters in their tracks with tactical fouls. This isn't a new thing from us, either. We've been soft and noticeably nicer all season. We need to return to being dickheads. Gordon, Bruno and Joelinton should be giving them all shithouse coaching at least once a week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 It's also associated things like when we fuck up and sky a shot high into the stands. We used to get pissed off with Miggy's simpering grin when he ruined an attack, but it's contagious now. People like Gordon, Burn and Longstaff do it regularly. Again, I believe they're trying to come from the perspective of not letting frustration put them off their game and trusting that the result will come if they remain positive and stick to the plan. I can respect that. But there's a risk of that morphing into complacency - of treating attacks like a hobby rather than a hunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 When we get a foul almost putting our arms around the ball/shielding/smothering the ball to stop the risk of the foul not being given and drawing a break away. Pulling up socks to waste time when going down. That arm throw by schar in the arsenal game sort of wasn't seen so it's kind of still there. Dont remember the game but caught on camera Murphy hanging around the other teams technical area when they were making a sub to hear if any tactic change is another one. We aren't as intensive as we once were last season some of the shithousing wasn't to see out tight games it was to allow micro breaks to talk to the gaffer,take on water and have a micro break less need when we don't seem to push ourselves as much. Slightly off topic for the subject but still think the team has learned as a bad habit not to empty the tank as for months we ain't had much in the way of subs. I truly believe some players were going to 75/80% as they knew they would have to see out 100min game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Like so many rules introduced to hamper us, I don't think it's a coincidence that time wasting rules got introduced this summer after we used 'tHe DaRk ArTs' to such great effect. I wouldn't be surprised if Howe has this in mind and has toned it down in fear of refs gagging to make an example out of the team that everyone decided were the worst for it last season. At least that's how I felt at the start of the season. It's gotten even worse considering the length of time some our biggest shithousers have had out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Speaking of which, does anyone have the 'ball in play' stats that were rolled out every week while we were doing really well and threatening the top teams last year. Come to think of it, has anyone even seen it mentioned it this year? Funny that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 38 minutes ago, midds said: Speaking of which, does anyone have the 'ball in play' stats that were rolled out every week while we were doing really well and threatening the top teams last year. Come to think of it, has anyone even seen it mentioned it this year? Funny that. Won’t that partly be because of the new rules concerning injury time etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 23 minutes ago, leffe186 said: Won’t that partly be because of the new rules concerning injury time etc? Possibly? But it would still be nice to see the impact or otherwise the new rules have had. There's always a decent chance I could be being a little paranoid and thinking the reason we're not seeing the stats we did last year is because we're way off the pace and not a threat this season. Maybe it's all just a coincidence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Jinx Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Them rugby tackles from longstaff and lascelles should have happened v dortmund and Milan months ago Still pisses me off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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