Víctor Muñoz: going to Liverpool (various)

[KaKa]

14 minutes ago, Kanj said:

I hate to say this in this thread but I have to, the manager had to have played a big part. Young kid playing for his countrymen probably has some factor in it. 
 

i do have some gut pain thinking our manager may not have the pull needed to sign some of these wonderkids - what if Cesc was our manager?

 

Where the manager is from is a big advantage, but the players present at the club likely play a big factor too. We fall short in both regards for this transfer.

 

We've done well signing young English talent, which makes sense with Howe in charge, but unfortunately there aren't enough options in the English market that we can realistically target for anywhere near the same sort of value.

 

On a related note, I've always thought that considering how well both Bruno and Joelinton have settled at Newcastle, and with the level of commitment they've shown, and how big their personalities are. It's a bit annoying we haven't been able to capitalise on that in going after more promising Brazilian talent.

 

At the minute when it comes to continental transfers in general though, it does feel like Howe doesn't quite have the type of pull we could do with, and on top of that we also don't have a powerhouse DOF with a big reputation and extensive experience dealing with big player transfers.

 

It's a bit of an uncomfortable situation to say the least.

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by KaKa

[AyeDubbleYoo]

12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

It wasn't Munoz that delayed this 2-weeks btw. He asked for 24 hours.

 

The 2-weeks was haggling with Osasuna and Real Madrid. Over £1m all-in.

 

Do you believe that it's as simple as that? Surely nobody involved would have any incentive for that. 

[sanyi75]

16 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

1. I don't think Liverpool sign any first-team players before sorting out their management situation. So that was a window of opportunity.

2. I think Munoz is very much a Iraola style player and being Spanish I do think he would've been particularly keen on him. If Iraola didn't want Munoz, would they still sign him as their first signing? I doubt that.

 

It is conjecture yes. But there's logic to it. 

Even if they don't need a winger, it's still worth buying, a good investment because he's not an expensive player, a really small amount, you can only win with him. We could have easily offered him more and cut the deal short.

[HayDen Traces]

33 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

Fair approach to take, I think it would lead to a lot of deals collapsing though. 

I agree. Players (particularly players in demand) hold all the aces. They'll just call our bluff nearly everytime.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, sanyi75 said:

Even if they don't need a winger, it's still worth buying, a good investment because he's not an expensive player, a really small amount, you can only win with him. We could have easily offered him more and cut the deal short.

 

If there were no financial rules. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

We haven’t had a good window since they left. The whole club has gone stale since then as well tbh.

 

Well this is why the new bloke is in place. He can't be judged yet, one deal done and one deal failed. 

[Sidg]

Don't like Downie's last point - "Club trying to get to the bottom of what happened". Don't need an internal investigation to determine that Liverpool have more pull or that our advanced interest was leaked to Fab to summon Liverpool, for fuck's sake. That should be blindingly obvious given the events of last summer. Just accept it, move on, and slap in a bid for Fernandez-Pardo so that we can enjoy life for a few days again before Chelsea sign him. 

[sanyi75]

3 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Where the manager is from is a big advantage, but the players present at the club likely play a big factor too. We fall short in both regards for this transfer.

 

We've done well signing young English talent, which makes sense with Howe in charge, but unfortunately there aren't enough options in the English market that we can realistically target for anywhere near the same sort of value.

 

Considering how well both Bruno and Joelinton have settled at Newcastle, and with the level of commitment they've shown, and how big their personalities are. It's a bit annoying we haven't been able to capitalise on that in going after more promising Brazilian talent.

 

At the minute when it comes to continental transfer sin general though, it does feel like Howe doesn't quite have the type of pull we could do with, and on top of that we also don't have a powerhouse DOF with a big reputation and extensive experience dealing with big player transfers.

 

It's a bit of an uncomfortable situation to say the least.

 

 

 

 

 

We could have also gotten Rayan, he's a young talent, Bournemouth plays well with him

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

Well this is why the new bloke is in place. He can't be judged yet, one deal done and one deal failed. 

Agreed, wasn’t saying anything otherwise.

[Kanj]

Wouldn’t get hung on tax implications here. Liverpool offered more money to club and player (wages assumption here) in 1 day than we did. 
 

you can pay the release clause valuation directly to the club and avoid the paper work and costs with a formal trigger as well. 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Kanj

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, sanyi75 said:

We could have also gotten Rayan, he's a young talent, Bournemouth plays well with him

 

Perfect example really.

[Minhosa]

4 minutes ago, HayDen Traces said:

I agree. Players (particularly players in demand) hold all the aces. They'll just call our bluff nearly everytime.

Hard disagree. 
 

Example being, there are 19 other companies doing what your current employer does, you currently earn £50k per annum. An employer towards the top of the pack offers you £80k but you need to tell them by Friday. An employer at very top might be keen on your services but hasn’t gone beyond sounding out your recruitment agent. They’ve said indicatively that they’d pay you £95k per annum. The employer offering £80k needs an answer and you know they’ll walk away if you don’t commit. 
 

You either take the £80k or risk being stuck where you are and only ever earning £50k. Plenty of people will take the firm offer. Not all. But plenty. 

[TRon]

16 minutes ago, black_n_white said:

If Liverpool are interested it’s highly doubtful he’s rubbish

 

 

Agreed. They certainly weren't interested in Elanga. 

[HayDen Traces]

1 minute ago, Minhosa said:

Hard disagree. 
 

Example being, there are 19 other companies doing what your current employer does, you currently earn £50k per annum. An employer towards the top of the pack offers you £80k but you need to tell them by Friday. An employer at very top might be keen on your services but hasn’t gone beyond sounding out your recruitment agent. They’ve said indicatively that they’d pay you £95k per annum. The employer offering £80k needs an answer and you know they’ll walk away if you don’t commit. 
 

You either take the £80k or risk being stuck where you are and only ever earning £50k. Plenty of people will take the firm offer. Not all. But plenty. 

But by the time Friday rolls round someone comes in and offers you £150k... 

Thats the situation we're in

[Abacus]

It doesn't sound like we did a lot wrong. Whenever the likes of Romano tweet that a deal is close but not yet agreed with most of the details included is when you need to worry.

 

He is clearly an agent in a terrible Clouseau style disguise just trying to get other clubs to jump.

 

As such, he deserves to have a low quality dinner, causing him to need to rush to the toilet and then stub his toe on the wardrobe on the way. An experience which briefly makes you pray and swear you will change your ways in life from them on, so I hear.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Abacus

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

18 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

We haven’t had a good window since they left. The whole club has gone stale since then as well tbh.

No it hasn’t. See above. 

[gdm]

This wee cunt will be brilliant for Isak too 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

10 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

Hard disagree. 
 

Example being, there are 19 other companies doing what your current employer does, you currently earn £50k per annum. An employer towards the top of the pack offers you £80k but you need to tell them by Friday. An employer at very top might be keen on your services but hasn’t gone beyond sounding out your recruitment agent. They’ve said indicatively that they’d pay you £95k per annum. The employer offering £80k needs an answer and you know they’ll walk away if you don’t commit. 
 

You either take the £80k or risk being stuck where you are and only ever earning £50k. Plenty of people will take the firm offer. Not all. But plenty. 

 of course there’s no way the agent takes that information to the 95k company immediately and then their indicative offer gets firmed up. 

[St1pe]

This isn’t a post trying to defend or criticise the club here but imagine all the work and negotiations that’s gone on to get that deal on the cusp of being done then to get shafted at the last minute… again. 

[bobbydazzla]

23 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

Hard disagree. 
 

Example being, there are 19 other companies doing what your current employer does, you currently earn £50k per annum. An employer towards the top of the pack offers you £80k but you need to tell them by Friday. An employer at very top might be keen on your services but hasn’t gone beyond sounding out your recruitment agent. They’ve said indicatively that they’d pay you £95k per annum. The employer offering £80k needs an answer and you know they’ll walk away if you don’t commit. 
 

You either take the £80k or risk being stuck where you are and only ever earning £50k. Plenty of people will take the firm offer. Not all. But plenty. 

If you’re good at what you do and you know demand for your services is high and the level of interest from the employer at the very top has made it clear they’re not messing about and they want you, they’ve just been delayed slightly because they’re bringing in a new MD who knows all about your capability and has agreed he definitely wants you in his team. 

 

In that situation, most people hold out.

 

But if that isn’t what you’re hearing, you accept the £80k offer.

 

 

Edited 49 minutes ago by bobbydazzla

[stozo]

30 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

I’m suggesting we sign less players and spend more on agents fees to get the ones we want. I’m talking about big payments/incentives to agents. 
 

As I said last night, if we need to sign 8 players this summer, let’s use the transfer fee for player 8 (say £20m) as the ‘get shit done fund’ and go without him.  That way, we end up with 7 x first choices and a small vulnerability in one position which can be addressed in the next window. 

 

 

 

It’s very easy to say that but actually what you are saying, to give an example, is you are happy with Dan Burn as backup LB next season. I think the base case looking at our SCR situation is we have budget to sign 6 players this window (2 GKs, 1 RB, 1 LB, 1 CM and 1 LW). We could sign five rather than six, which is the approach you are suggesting, but then we are going to leave ourselves short in a position. 

[The College Dropout]

I do think time is worth a lot.

 

Some people don't think it matters. 

 

Massive ideological gap.

[sanyi75]

24 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

Hard disagree. 
 

Example being, there are 19 other companies doing what your current employer does, you currently earn £50k per annum. An employer towards the top of the pack offers you £80k but you need to tell them by Friday. An employer at very top might be keen on your services but hasn’t gone beyond sounding out your recruitment agent. They’ve said indicatively that they’d pay you £95k per annum. The employer offering £80k needs an answer and you know they’ll walk away if you don’t commit. 
 

You either take the £80k or risk being stuck where you are and only ever earning £50k. Plenty of people will take the firm offer. Not all. But plenty. 

In this case, it would have been clear whether he was really interested in our offer and wanted to join us. We should do this, otherwise it will happen again.

[sanyi75]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I do think time is worth a lot.

 

Some people don't think it matters. 

 

Massive ideological gap.

Yes, time is money, and it wouldn't be like player xy dumped us for someone else.

[bobbydazzla]

3 minutes ago, sanyi75 said:

In this case, it would have been clear whether he was really interested in our offer and wanted to join us. We should do this, otherwise it will happen again.

His agent just strings us along, tells us he’s bang up for it can’t get shit sorted quickly cos he’s at the World Cup yadda yadda yadda.

 

Oldest trick in the book. 

 

 

Edited 45 minutes ago by bobbydazzla