Alan Pardew

[Elliottman]

Its such a shame that, instead of looking forward to looking forward to the new season, there is so much doom and gloom.

 

We are clearly in a stronger position than we ended last. Yes, there is a lack of quaility outside the first 11, but lets be excited about what we do have. Our first 11 looks VERY exciting.

 

Really tiring reading so many depressing posts based on the back of a couple of Padrew quotes.

 

Whether we are currently stronger than we started last season is very debatable..

 

How exactly?

 

We have lost Carroll and have replaced him with Ba. I don't think that constitutes progress, do you?

 

We have lost Nolan, our club captain and goal scorer and replaced him with Cabaye, who looks promising but is a bit of an unknown quantity. Let's call it evens.

 

We have lost Campbell (essential cover at centre back) and got Marveaux (cover for wings with first team potential but also massive crock potential).

 

All in all we haven't done too badly, but we've gone backwards in attack and defense, and (hopefully) improved in midfield. We have also not spent any major transfer funds. As I have argued before, I am relatively happy so far, but don't come and tell me you are happy if this is how the window closes..?

 

 

Well, Ba For Carroll. Yes, Carroll was unstoppable for us first half of last season. Got to remember he missed a lot of the 2nd half through injury. How many games would we have got out of him? Ba's record was/is very good. So we've lost a good player, but replaced him with one.

 

Campbell - essential? Come on. He was shocking all but 1 game for us. He's finished.

 

As for Nolan, from a playing perspective, i didnt shed any tears to see him go. If Cabaye is the footballer he is made out to be, we will be a lot more mobile in the middle next year and hopefull Tiote wont have to do the running of to men.

 

Add to that the return of Ben Arfa, Meaveux, Gosling and potentially Vuckic, i'd say (on paper) we looking stronger. Just lack a little depth.

 

Again, there is still two months to go before the window ends too.

 

I just dont get all the doom and gloom. I for one, cant wait for the new season.

 

How much Carroll played second half of last season is irrelevant to whether we have become stronger in the striker department since the start of last season. Surely you understand that?

 

Campbell was essential cover, not because he was an excellent option, but because by letting him go we now have no cover if anything happens to Colo, Williamson or Taylor. It does not take John Terry to replace him but since he's gone and we've not got anybody else in to step up when injuries hit us in central defense, we've gone backwards in this area. Surely this is no too complicated?

 

Ben Arfa and Vuckic were here last season and both were fit to play, so they are irrelevant in a comparison. I will give you Gosling, even though it is entirely unsure after nearly 2 years on the sidelines he will ever fulfill his potential with us. Anyway, I already conceded so far we look slightly stronger in midfield than at the start of last season, but we have gone backwards in defense and attack.

 

The two months we still have are irrelevant to the argument as you yourself stated:

We are clearly in a stronger position than we ended last

 

Which I demonstrated to you is very debatable.

 

 

Even then, if you are happy to be optimistic about the possible incomings in the next two months, surely you will permit me to be cautious with respect to possible outgoings. After all, we all know what is likely to happen if decent bids come in for Barton, Enrique and even the likes of Colo, Jonas and Tiote.

 

We clearly have different opinions, however, Ben Arfa and Vuckic were fit to play???

 

If we are talking about 'as it stands' Then Barton, Enrique etc havent been sold.

 

We managed half a season without Carroll, so maybe we are weaker up top than we were the first half of last season, however we are stronger than the second.

 

Again, as it stands, imo, we are stronger than we ended last season.

 

Ben Arfa and Vuckic were more or less fit to play at the start of last season, weren't they?

 

I haven't excluded Barton, Enrique, etc in my comparison to the start of last season, have I?

 

So you conceed we are currently weaker up top than at the start of last season? Good. Now show me how we aren't weaker in defense and it might give your optimism a semblance of credibility.

 

Ok, before we go any further. Are we simply discussing if we are stronger than when we faced Man United on the first game of last season or are we going to take the other 37 games into consideration??

 

If you can clarify before we continue that would be great.

 

Because saying we are not stronger because Ben Arfa was fit for 3 whole games of last season is bat shit crazy.

[Unbelievable]

Are we stronger now than at the start of last season? It's not rocket science..

[Elliottman]

Vs Man Utd

 

Harper, Perch, Colo, Willi, Jose, Routledge, Smith, Jonas, Barton, Nolan Carroll.

 

 

Yes, we are. Its not rocket science.

[Unbelievable]

Vs Man Utd

 

Harper, Perch, Colo, Willi, Jose, Routledge, Smith, Jonas, Barton, Nolan Carroll.

 

 

Yes, we are. Its not rocket science.

 

The squad Elliott, the squad...

[Elliottman]

Vs Man Utd

 

Harper, Perch, Colo, Willi, Jose, Routledge, Smith, Jonas, Barton, Nolan Carroll.

 

 

Yes, we are. Its not rocket science.

 

The squad Elliott, the squad...

 

Out of the squad, we have lost Nolan and Campbell.

 

So yes, we are.

[Elliottman]

And Carroll sorry.

[Unbelievable]

So we're back to square one. We've lost Nolan, Campbell and Carroll, and brought in Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba.

 

I said it was debatable that those changes have made us stronger and explained why, player for player and position for position. My conclusion is we are stronger in midfield, but weaker in defense and attack.

 

What don't you agree with?

[Elliottman]

So we're back to square one. We've lost Nolan, Campbell and Carroll, and brought in Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba.

 

I said it was debatable that those changes have made us stronger and explained why, player for player and position for position.

 

What don't you agree with?

 

Well no, not quite, i also mentioned the return of Ben Arfa and Gosling. And that we now have someone with legs to partner Tiote.

 

Look, we are going round in circles. Only time will tell. I for one, am looking forward to the new season and dont get all the pessimism. Yes we need a few more, and there is plently of time for that to happen. As it stands, our first 11 looks decent and should cause some problems. We looks like weve got a bit more pace and players that can do things with the ball.

 

I agree, if we lose the players you mentioned we are going to be seriously lacking - if they arent replaced.

 

We'll see.

[Dokko]

How are we weaker in defence? All of our main defenders had a good season of experience, Simpson has improved drastically, Taylor is looking decent again, Colo has become the defender we thought we signed and Jose is now hot property. Williamson also stepped up to premiership level. Losing Campbell means absolutely nothing.

 

To add to that if you want to widen the meaning of defending then we have Tiote now to cover the back four, and Krul had his breakthrough season as a goalkeeper as well, so defensively, not just the back line we are a much stronger unit for next season as it stands, selling Jose would blow all of that out the water though.

[Unbelievable]

So we're back to square one. We've lost Nolan, Campbell and Carroll, and brought in Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba.

 

I said it was debatable that those changes have made us stronger and explained why, player for player and position for position.

 

What don't you agree with?

 

Well no, not quite, i also mentioned the return of Ben Arfa and Gosling. And that we now have someone with legs to partner Tiote.

 

Look, we are going round in circles. Only time will tell. I for one, am looking forward to the new season and dont get all the pessimism. Yes we need a few more, and there is plently of time for that to happen. As it stands, our first 11 looks decent and should cause some problems. We looks like weve got a bit more pace and players that can do things with the ball.

 

I agree, if we lose the players you mentioned we are going to be seriously lacking - if they arent replaced.

 

We'll see.

 

Fair enough. Still fail to see where Ben Arfa fits into your argument: he was available at the start of last season and he will be this season if things don't change in that respect. So he was injured for most of the season. Do you think none of our players will be injured next season? I would argue there are other players than Ben Arfa that would make us much weaker if they were out injured for a serious amount of time (Colo, Enrique)..

 

But, as you say, we'll see. 

[fredbob]

Still don't understand why noone sees Ba as a credible replacement for Carroll. If we're planning to play on the floor I'm more than happy to have Ba taking up Carrolls role, admittedly Carroll was good with the ball at his feet but his movement wasn't great and he had no genuine pace. I actually think ba would be better to suited to how we intend to play.

[TherealnorthernTOON]

Just give in Elliotman, Unbelieveable has made his mind up allready.

[Unbelievable]

How are we weaker in defence? All of our main defenders had a good season of experience, Simpson has improved drastically, Taylor is looking decent again, Colo has become the defender we thought we signed and Jose is now hot property. Williamson also stepped up to premiership level. Losing Campbell means absolutely nothing.

 

To add to that if you want to widen the meaning of defending then we have Tiote now to cover the back four, and Krul had his breakthrough season as a goalkeeper as well, so defensively, not just the back line we are a much stronger unit for next season as it stands, selling Jose would blow all of that out the water though.

 

Your argument essentially comes down to: we may have gone down in numbers, but the players left have just had a really good season, even better than we might have expected beforehand (something I actually kind of agree with). They are still the same players as last year though, aren't they? Also, what is to say they will exceed expectations again?

[The Prophet]

So we're back to square one. We've lost Nolan, Campbell and Carroll, and brought in Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba.

 

I said it was debatable that those changes have made us stronger and explained why, player for player and position for position. My conclusion is we are stronger in midfield, but weaker in defense and attack.

 

What don't you agree with?

 

Weaker without Campbell?

 

[Dokko]

How are we weaker in defence? All of our main defenders had a good season of experience, Simpson has improved drastically, Taylor is looking decent again, Colo has become the defender we thought we signed and Jose is now hot property. Williamson also stepped up to premiership level. Losing Campbell means absolutely nothing.

 

To add to that if you want to widen the meaning of defending then we have Tiote now to cover the back four, and Krul had his breakthrough season as a goalkeeper as well, so defensively, not just the back line we are a much stronger unit for next season as it stands, selling Jose would blow all of that out the water though.

 

Your argument essentially comes down to: we may have gone down in numbers, but the players left have just had a really good season, even better than we might have expected beforehand (something I actually kind of agree with). They are still the same players as last year though, aren't they? Also, what is to say they will exceed expectations again?

 

We haven't gone down in numbers, we've lost one who we never really played, one who was shit and head not in it. If anything him not being here strengthens the defence. Continuity in defence is a essential ingredient we've lacked for years, don't underestimate what a constant settled back four brings to a team.

 

They are not the same players that started the season, that's for sure, they've grown, they've improved and they've blended; which brings to the point 'Are we stronger now than at the start of last season' the answer defensively is yes we are.

 

They'll not exceed expectations this season, but they will match last time out and in that alone is progression, sometimes standing still does you good and before anyone jumps on that look at spuds, I'm sure they'd have loved to stand still this season in the league and retain 4th position.

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

Continuity in defence is a essential ingredient we've lacked for years, don't underestimate what a constant settled back four brings to a team.

 

I agree (and hopefully Mr Padieu does too after his unnecessary tinkering with the defence last year brought only ill results).

 

As the rest of the team is going to be made up of unblended elements the defensive continuity becomes even more important.

[toontownman]

In an ideal world last season Campbell was half the player he was two seasons before, motivated and head in the right place.

 

In reality he came here for the money, might have bothered playing for Hughton (if he wasn't injured) but gave up after he was sacked. Campbell was as useless as Marcelino and possibly less willing to play.

[Wullie]

So we're back to square one. We've lost Nolan, Campbell and Carroll, and brought in Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba.

 

I said it was debatable that those changes have made us stronger and explained why, player for player and position for position. My conclusion is we are stronger in midfield, but weaker in defense and attack.

 

What don't you agree with?

 

Weaker without Campbell?

 

 

Don't think anyone will rue his departure but I wouldn't feel comfortable going into the season without another centre half, even if it was a promising kid. Maybe that's Kadar but he'll have to prove he can go more than five minutes without getting injured first.

 

Dread to think what would happen if Coloccini got injured, thankfully that's as rare as an Alan Smith winner.

[wormy]

So we're back to square one. We've lost Nolan, Campbell and Carroll, and brought in Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba.

 

I said it was debatable that those changes have made us stronger and explained why, player for player and position for position. My conclusion is we are stronger in midfield, but weaker in defense and attack.

 

What don't you agree with?

 

Weaker without Campbell?

 

 

Don't think anyone will rue his departure but I wouldn't feel comfortable going into the season without another centre half, even if it was a promising kid. Maybe that's Kadar but he'll have to prove he can go more than five minutes without getting injured first.

 

Dread to think what would happen if Coloccini got injured, thankfully that's as rare as an Alan Smith winner.

 

Well that's a broken leg in pre-season waiting to happen!

 

Feel the same tbh. Sol was okay to call on at those desperate times. Wouldn't mind another like that as 4th choice, unless people think Kadar is ready to take that role?

[Sifu]

So we're back to square one. We've lost Nolan, Campbell and Carroll, and brought in Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba.

 

I said it was debatable that those changes have made us stronger and explained why, player for player and position for position. My conclusion is we are stronger in midfield, but weaker in defense and attack.

 

What don't you agree with?

 

Weaker without Campbell?

 

 

Don't think anyone will rue his departure but I wouldn't feel comfortable going into the season without another centre half, even if it was a promising kid. Maybe that's Kadar but he'll have to prove he can go more than five minutes without getting injured first.

 

Dread to think what would happen if Coloccini got injured, thankfully that's as rare as an Alan Smith winner.

 

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

Dread to think what would happen if Coloccini got injured, thankfully that's as rare as an Alan Smith winner.

 

Which is one of the reasons he's worth the money.

 

To get top class players without a troublesome injury record and without any attitude problems costs top dollar.

 

(And even then you need to give them a year or two to settle, especially if they've never played in England before).

[ponsaelius]

So we're back to square one. We've lost Nolan, Campbell and Carroll, and brought in Cabaye, Marveaux and Ba.

 

I said it was debatable that those changes have made us stronger and explained why, player for player and position for position. My conclusion is we are stronger in midfield, but weaker in defense and attack.

 

What don't you agree with?

 

Weaker without Campbell?

 

 

Don't think anyone will rue his departure but I wouldn't feel comfortable going into the season without another centre half, even if it was a promising kid. Maybe that's Kadar but he'll have to prove he can go more than five minutes without getting injured first.

 

Dread to think what would happen if Coloccini got injured, thankfully that's as rare as an Alan Smith winner.

 

Agree with you about getting another centre half. I guess we'll be assessing Kadar over the pre-season but I still would feel far more comfortable with a 4th option.

[toontownman]

I thought Pardew had mentioned looking out for and wanting a CB that can play fullback. Might well be in my head though.

 

Alot of responsibility on Kadars shoulders if we don't bring anyone in. Its a make or break year for him imo, his injuries have been unlucky but If he doesnt make an impression this year I can see us getting rid.

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

Tavernier seems highly rated, he can play CB can he not?

[toontownman]

Yeah he can play RB or CB, think he prefers the middle but played RB when he was on loan.

 

RB: Tavernier, Raylor, Simpson (Saylor if needed)

CB: Colo, Willow, Saylor, Kadar, Tavernier

LB: Enrique, Ferguson, Kadar, possibly Naylor