Shak Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Agree entirely Sewelly, if he gets rid of HBA without giving him a fair shot (which he absolutely hasn't thus far) then it'll be a massive strike against Pardew for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Worst thing about the position he finds himself in (as a wildcard alternative to plan A) is that I really don't think he's a natural impact player even without the added problem of his injury. Sure, we all know he's very talented and can produce moments of magic but he's not say a pacey winger or a big target man say who can come straight in off the bench and offer something different to change the pattern of a game. He's not a plan B, he's a player who needs to play a run of games together in a settled system playing to his strengths then over time you'll start getting a return on what he offers in terms of vision, creativity, dribbling, crossing, ball retention (yes, he does actually offer this despite what OptaStats or Pardew will tell you) and ultimately goals/assists. You'll still get the frustrating moments but ultimately if he's on the pitch enough you'll get more out of him. Instead he's being thrown into a team that have a set routine and style of play and is asked to do too much. I don't mind him taking players on and losing it, or trying an adventurous pass - but there are some in the crowd that do and it's exagerrated because he's coming on at a time in the game where we're struggling and we're now looking at him to get it right immediately. I think the situation is completely counterproductive to getting the best out of him and an example of terrible man management. It's getting to the point where I cynically but honestly think Pardew doesn't even want to try and is engineering a situation where Hatem comes off looking worse. If Ben Arfa is coming on for 20 minute periods when we're struggling and gives the ball away a few times it gives him the ready made get-out excuse to stick to what he knows. Sounds like I'm just making excuses for the player and I'm sure there are many on here that will come out with the "gawd are you an NUFC fan or a Ben Arfa fan!?!" type comments but this is honestly how I feel the situation has arisen. I just don't buy the nonsense about him giving the ball away too much or not being able to play wide. It's all a load of shit, especially when the alternatives are Obertan and Ryan Taylor. Ben Arfa is the kind of player who I watch football for and it will make me very sad seeing him go at the end of the season, completely wasted and missmanaged. Some won't be bothered especially if the results continue to flow and we go on to a solid finish without him but for me I'll be gutted. This is a player who was desperate to sign for us and has all the attributes to be a roaring success here if managed in the right way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 He's a talented boy, but I can't help but think his inconsistency actually enhances his reputation somewhat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I don't think he did that bad today. I am glad he tried sth else becoz the rest of the players are fucking hopeless. But well, yea if he could just simply pass the ball instead of dribble himself BEFORE reaching the final third, it would be perfect. I have had no problem for him being selfish or losing the ball if he didn't do it meaninglessly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 He's a talented boy, but I can't help but think his inconsistency actually enhances his reputation somewhat. Not really. More and more are seemingly happy to see the back of him because of it. Even an inconsistent Ben Arfa would offer more than most of our players given the gametime on the pitch. FFS Steve sodding Bruce didn't even have this stubborness with their equivalent down the road. I remember loads of mackems saying that Sessegnon doesn't offer enough tangible both last season and at the start of this season. He's playing every game though and eventually (coupled with getting a new guy in who is an excellent motivator and man-manager) they're getting everything out of him. This is a guy who had a similar reputation in France and I'm sure many L1 followers would argue actually didn't have the same level of talent. Even the most cynical/percentage managers in the league manage to find room for skillful players if they happen to be the best that they've got. This is a league full of cloggers and shite, we've managed to attract players who give us the edge over most sides in the league but we seem to lower ourselves to their level in terms of selections (Raylor/Obertan) and tactics (hoofing it to Ba). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezertron Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 They don't trust him to start, but they'll bring him on and expect him to save the game. Not really fair. tbf, we were winning when he came on I never said to win us the game. Everything has turned to shit -> bring on Ben Arfa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I think the situation is completely counterproductive to getting the best out of him and an example of terrible man management. It's getting to the point where I cynically but honestly think Pardew doesn't even want to try and is engineering a situation where Hatem comes off looking worse. If Ben Arfa is coming on for 20 minute periods when we're struggling and gives the ball away a few times it gives him the ready made get-out excuse to stick to what he knows. Sounds like I'm just making excuses for the player and I'm sure there are many on here that will come out with the "gawd are you an NUFC fan or a Ben Arfa fan!?!" type comments but this is honestly how I feel the situation has arisen. I just don't buy the nonsense about him giving the ball away too much or not being able to play wide. It's all a load of shit, especially when the alternatives are Obertan and Ryan Taylor. Ben Arfa is the kind of player who I watch football for and it will make me very sad seeing him go at the end of the season, completely wasted and missmanaged. Some won't be bothered especially if the results continue to flow and we go on to a solid finish without him but for me I'll be gutted. This is a player who was desperate to sign for us and has all the attributes to be a roaring success here if managed in the right way. Agreed with especially these last two paragraphs. It's an infuriating, frustrating and illogical situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sewelly absolutely on the nail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You cannot pass it sideways and back forever. Eventually you have to attempt to breakout. If you don't have enough players capable of creating the breakout you are going to get turned over. HBA is arguably our most capable as an outlet. His lack of opportunities makes no sense if we want to change this recent pattern of negativity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Shouldn't it be "nail on the head?" Really hit the nail on the nail there though Sewelly, I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 come on in many ways pardew cant win, we moan about potatohead so he's been dropped, we moan about hba not getting chances, when he plays he's been shit. we play virtually the same side bar shola vs man utd and beat them 3-0. i don't know if the players are told to sit deep and not push forward or they were simply lethargic and didnt want to the business today. The truth is, we were shyte! fucking horrible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sewelly is bang under the nail, there. Cracking posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hatem will never prosper under pardew... One or the other. I know who i'd have at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I think midfielders are there to protect the defenders in Pardew's scheme of things and as such, this boy will never fit in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Didn't play well and still done more offensively than Raylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Its quite simple with Ben Arfa, he needs to find his feet as all new players do and that can only happen with a run in the side which he has never had. He needs to start every game. If that happened he would find his feet as Ba has done and he'll deliver the goods, goals and assits and in general good performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You cannot pass it sideways and back forever. Eventually you have to attempt to breakout. If you don't have enough players capable of creating the breakout you are going to get turned over. HBA is arguably our most capable as an outlet. His lack of opportunities makes no sense if we want to change this recent pattern of negativity. It's a case of the old cliché "the best form of defence is attack". Some managers don't see to understand that and unfortunately it's becoming apparent that Pardew is one of them. A game like today against a weakened Wolves side in apparent disarray, infront of a sell-out crowd with our best team available? As far as I'm concerned for games like this you need to start forgetting about things like shape, discipline, organisation etc and start thinking about how you're going to tear the opposition apart. That means getting our best players on the pitch, put Jonas and Ben Arfa wide and give them the freedom to attack. Even when we went 2-0 up I never had any faith in us smelling blood and going for the kill like we should have done because the mentality is seemingly engrained into the team. If we went for it at that point and kept the pressure on they'd have completely crumbled. If we're attacking and dominating possession then they can't, simple as that. One of the the things I said positively about Pardew earlier in the season was it seemed like he was able to prepare differently for each game depending on the opposition and situation. Unfortunately in a lot of ways I was probably wrong. He certainly doesn't appear to know how to approach a home game against shit opposition with all of our best players available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Since we have more or less finally came to the conclusion Pardew is not good enough for the current group of players hence the abuse/under performance they get while playing under him. Currently Ben Arfa is pretty much set up to play on the right side, imo that is not his natural side. I think he would fit in better on the left and contribute alot more from there since he is a lefty. Have not enjoyed seeing Ben Arfa going to the byline on the right and havent the right foot to cross the ball in. Too often the attacks are lost that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Oi Pardew play this lad you defensive fecker, a run of games and he'll be mint, stop fecking around with Raylor, Simpson and Shitebulb, hoy your rigid 4-4-2 and use the decent footballers you got. You massive plank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Wouldn't be upset in the slightest if he left in the summer. Would have preferred Obertan to come on today after that showing. #tinhat Moronic post. Even on this showing, he still produced two shots that were very unlucky not to go in. Obertan produces nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Wouldn't be upset in the slightest if he left in the summer. Would have preferred Obertan to come on today after that showing. #tinhat Moronic post. Even on this showing, he still produced two shots that were very unlucky not to go in. Obertan produces nothing. Absolutely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 His non-selection is just symptomatic of the manager's negative approach to the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I thought he was shit today and proved why he's not getting a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sigh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I thought he was s*** today and proved why he's not getting a game. What did Ryan Taylor do to justify him starting ahead of Ben Arfa then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts