Hatem Ben Arfa

[duo]

The problem with our team and Ben Arfa is that everyone around him expects him to do it all by himself. There's no f***er moving into space when Ben Arfa's on the ball. Everyone's just standing there, waiting for something to happen instead of contributing themselves.

True.

 

It has to be said though as much as I want him play he doesn't look fit and hasn't done for a long while, he looks off the pace.

 

 

[oldtype]

Ben Arfa is one of the best technical players in the world, but at age 26 I think it's pretty apparent that he hasn't got the athleticism or the mental consistency to be an elite player.

 

We could definitely use him better than we are currently, but we're deluding ourselves if we think he's going to blossom into a dominant player if we just "set him free." He is what he is.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Ben Arfa is one of the best technical players in the world, but at age 26 I think it's pretty apparent that he hasn't got the athleticism or the mental consistency to be an elite player.

 

We could definitely use him better than we are currently, but we're deluding ourselves if we think he's going to blossom into a dominant player if we just "set him free." He is what he is.

 

Don't think athleticism comes into it much tbh, there's a lot less athletic players than HBA around that i would consider "elite".

 

His problem is solely mental, he doesn't make good decisions.

[Gallowgate Toon]

We could definitely use him better than we are currently, but we're deluding ourselves if we think he's going to blossom into a dominant player if we just "set him free." He is what he is.

 

This is about right, for me. I think we've seen him given freedom over the past season and a third and it's not as good as when he was an important part of the system, rather than the focal point. I think he's just too maverick in his head to be given a really free role, he might be one that ages into it when his other qualities become more prominent.

 

I think he's a player that needs to be well-controlled, managing him into the right mindset is key to getting the most out of him for the team.

[Gallowgate Toon]

He'll play a big part on the second half of the season, IMO. I think that, since Everton, Pardew has been looking to get the work ethic back that was in the side 2 years ago, re-building that foundation. Hatem will be re-introduced pretty soon, I'm sure of it.

[Mistle17]

He's not playing in the right country. With a player of his talent and all we can shite on about is his fucking work rate.

[Parky]

Let's see how far Eng 'work rate' get them in Brazil.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He'll play a big part on the second half of the season, IMO. I think that, since Everton, Pardew has been looking to get the work ethic back that was in the side 2 years ago, re-building that foundation. Hatem will be re-introduced pretty soon, I'm sure of it.

 

Hopefully you're right. If that happens then it would look like Pardew had got it spot on with HBA again.

[Parky]

Mata at Chelsea is a similar scenario...Don't run around enough: Don't play.

[buzza]

He's not playing in the right country. With a player of his talent and all we can s**** on about is his f***ing work rate.

Hear hear!!

Agree completely. The only way I see possible for him to break into the team and make a difference is that Nº10 role. You could work on the role that he and Remy carry out up front and as long as the ball is played on the deck and the team has confidence in itself I think we could be magical.

With all due respect Shola wouldn't get into may prem league teams and his contribution is aerial only tbf, Ben Arfa could be our attacking fulcrum if we had the management team with the vision to realize this.

I would rather see one moment of brilliance from Hatem than 5 headers won from Shola. Would rather see the team set up to play through a number ten who could drift all over the pitch and be involved in play, again I can see that Ben Arfa would need to be more disciplined as every ball cannot be a defense splitter and every dribble will not be won...

In essence, that is why I watch football, to come away with one moment of the match etched in your mind which gives you a little "high" all week after.

N.B. I still remember a Ginola moment like that from about 20 years ago, still smirk at the audacity!

[Parky]

The team has to be built around him..ie an intelligent striker (a no 9) with pace who Hatem can pick out...We don't have that player..There are about a half dozen other things that need changing but there is no appetite for it while we are winning games with the 'high energy' disco mix we play atm.

[Shak]

I'm not sure where he's going to play if we're going to stick with a 4-4-2, honestly. Sissoko is making the spot on the right his own, and Gouffran is chipping in with goals from the left.

 

I'd be up for giving him a shot as a number ten, just off Remy, but I don't know if Pardew would go for it. I think he'll be used as a sub for the foreseeable future unless there are injuries.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The team has to be built around him..ie an intelligent striker (a no 9) with pace who Hatem can pick out...We don't have that player..There are about a half dozen other things that need changing but there is no appetite for it while we are winning games with the 'high energy' disco mix we play atm.

 

Remy?

[Parky]

The team has to be built around him..ie an intelligent striker (a no 9) with pace who Hatem can pick out...We don't have that player..There are about a half dozen other things that need changing but there is no appetite for it while we are winning games with the 'high energy' disco mix we play atm.

 

Remy?

 

He's a deep forward that likes to pick the ball up (mostly wide left areas) and run into attacking space. That's why I said no 9. Hatem needs a real No.9 that plays off the shoulder and is looking to 'get in behind'...

 

Thinking about it Cisse could fit the bill but he lacks a football brain and pace. Chelsea have a similar problem right now because one of their strikers has lost a yard and the other has morphed into a workhorse who does a lot of work outside the box.

[tmonkey]

Given that the only alternative is Shola, we really have nothing to lose to try Ben Arfa in this number 10 role behind Remy for at least a month. Whilst we may not get the benefit of Ben Arfa picking the ball up deep on the right flank and skipping past 2 players, we do get him closer to the edge of the box where he's arguably one of the most dangerous players in the Premiership, and in theory it should utilise his underrated shooting abilities more.

 

Whilst I'd agree that Hatem has looked lost/less effective in that area of the pitch the few times he has played there, and there is a significant possibility that he's just not mentally sharp enough to ever play in that role/area of the pitch effectively, I don't think the actual judgement (that he can't really play in that position/role based on past attempts) is fair given that he's randomly been thrown into that role for 45 minutes every 6 months or so. You can't just chop and change at will randomly, throw someone into an alien position, and still expect the team/players to perform as though they've been playing there their entire lives. It surely takes time to build up some understanding of the role, for teammates to know how to use the player, etc etc. Time he has never been afforded when far lesser players have.

 

And I'm in no doubt that Pardew's preparations for these changes makes matters worse, i.e. if Hatem suddenly and randomly plays in the number 10 role one week, spending 4 days of the week working on defensive tactics isn't going to help the team as a whole to suddenly start utilising an entirely new role that they've not used before at all, in an area of the pitch where they've been coached by said manager to ignore (i.e. to get the ball into the strikers quickly as opposed to working the ball through the middle). Having said that, as we've passed the ball alot better this season compared to last, there should now be some scope for looking at Ben Arfa in the number 10 role just behind Remy, though I'm under no illusions that we'll still probably ask too much of Hatem because the movement and linkup play just isn't good enough. But again, with Shola as the alternative, what is there to lose?

[buzza]

But again, with Shola as the alternative, what is there to lose?

That's my thinking exactly! It's not as though Shola is tracking back and defending like there's no tomorrow... Why not try Hatem in that 10 role.

Although it's a silly comparison: You don't see Barcelona moaning that they need a real target man or Nº9 do you?

:whistle:

[Parky]

Remy isn't a No.9. He's a wide forward who doesn't like to be the furthest forward...So. this 'behind Remy' is a non-starter.

[Parky]

Given that the only alternative is Shola, we really have nothing to lose to try Ben Arfa in this number 10 role behind Remy for at least a month. Whilst we may not get the benefit of Ben Arfa picking the ball up deep on the right flank and skipping past 2 players, we do get him closer to the edge of the box where he's arguably one of the most dangerous players in the Premiership, and in theory it should utilise his underrated shooting abilities more.

 

Whilst I'd agree that Hatem has looked lost/less effective in that area of the pitch the few times he has played there, and there is a significant possibility that he's just not mentally sharp enough to ever play in that role/area of the pitch effectively, I don't think the actual judgement (that he can't really play in that position/role based on past attempts) is fair given that he's randomly been thrown into that role for 45 minutes every 6 months or so. You can't just chop and change at will randomly, throw someone into an alien position, and still expect the team/players to perform as though they've been playing there their entire lives. It surely takes time to build up some understanding of the role, for teammates to know how to use the player, etc etc. Time he has never been afforded when far lesser players have.

 

And I'm in no doubt that Pardew's preparations for these changes makes matters worse, i.e. if Hatem suddenly and randomly plays in the number 10 role one week, spending 4 days of the week working on defensive tactics isn't going to help the team as a whole to suddenly start utilising an entirely new role that they've not used before at all, in an area of the pitch where they've been coached by said manager to ignore (i.e. to get the ball into the strikers quickly as opposed to working the ball through the middle). Having said that, as we've passed the ball alot better this season compared to last, there should now be some scope for looking at Ben Arfa in the number 10 role just behind Remy, though I'm under no illusions that we'll still probably ask too much of Hatem because the movement and linkup play just isn't good enough. But again, with Shola as the alternative, what is there to lose?

 

What Pards likes about Gouff and Siss is that they press the fuck out of the opp and both run back to shield the fullbacks. Hatem is never going to do that.

[The College Dropout]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

 

 

The universally accepted flop of an 18 year old? Never. He scored 3 goals in 4 starts for them. As a left back at that. It took him plenty of starts before they managed to win a match he was involved in but a massive flop never good enough for Spurs? Get to fuck.

 

 

He hasn't proven consistently that he has the same level of ability as Bale. Bale scored more goals last season than Hatem has in 5 years. What planet are you living on?

 

He's more Nani than Bale. Loads of untapped ability that has meant he sits on the bench while more consistent, team based players get playing time.

[Hanshithispantz]

The team has to be built around him..ie an intelligent striker (a no 9) with pace who Hatem can pick out...We don't have that player..There are about a half dozen other things that need changing but there is no appetite for it while we are winning games with the 'high energy' disco mix we play atm.

 

Remy?

 

He's a deep forward that likes to pick the ball up (mostly wide left areas) and run into attacking space. That's why I said no 9. Hatem needs a real No.9 that plays off the shoulder and is looking to 'get in behind'...

 

Thinking about it Cisse could fit the bill but he lacks a football brain and pace. Chelsea have a similar problem right now because one of their strikers has lost a yard and the other has morphed into a workhorse who does a lot of work outside the box.

HBA and Ba looked class together at times tbh when Ba was in the centre (and they obviously linked well when he was wide left too).

 

Ben Arfa clipped some delightful balls over the back line and Ba met most of them (not sure he actually scored from any mind).

[BrettNUFC]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

The universally accepted flop of an 18 year old? Never. He scored 3 goals in 4 starts for them. As a left back at that. It took him plenty of starts before they managed to win a match he was involved in but a massive flop never good enough for Spurs? Get to f***.

 

They tried to flog him to Birmingham but they pulled out last minute due to funds. Was definitely looking at one point like his days could be numbered for Spurs.

[Parky]

The team has to be built around him..ie an intelligent striker (a no 9) with pace who Hatem can pick out...We don't have that player..There are about a half dozen other things that need changing but there is no appetite for it while we are winning games with the 'high energy' disco mix we play atm.

 

Remy?

 

He's a deep forward that likes to pick the ball up (mostly wide left areas) and run into attacking space. That's why I said no 9. Hatem needs a real No.9 that plays off the shoulder and is looking to 'get in behind'...

 

Thinking about it Cisse could fit the bill but he lacks a football brain and pace. Chelsea have a similar problem right now because one of their strikers has lost a yard and the other has morphed into a workhorse who does a lot of work outside the box.

HBA and Ba looked class together at times tbh when Ba was in the centre (and they obviously linked well when he was wide left too).

 

Ben Arfa clipped some delightful balls over the back line and Ba met most of them (not sure he actually scored from any mind).

 

Totally agree. Ba and Hatem were on a good wavelength and he was a great foil for Hatem in that he has a real football brain and looks for dangerous space and finds goals scoring positions as a second nature.

[Parky]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

The universally accepted flop of an 18 year old? Never. He scored 3 goals in 4 starts for them. As a left back at that. It took him plenty of starts before they managed to win a match he was involved in but a massive flop never good enough for Spurs? Get to f***.

 

They tried to flog him to Birmingham but they pulled out last minute due to funds. Was definitely looking at one point like his days could be numbered for Spurs.

 

Bale changed physically and added athleticism and power to his game.

[The College Dropout]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

The universally accepted flop of an 18 year old? Never. He scored 3 goals in 4 starts for them. As a left back at that. It took him plenty of starts before they managed to win a match he was involved in but a massive flop never good enough for Spurs? Get to f***.

 

They tried to flog him to Birmingham but they pulled out last minute due to funds. Was definitely looking at one point like his days could be numbered for Spurs.

 

In any case.. he would've been what 19/20 when this happened? He also spent a lot of that time injured.

 

I personally would never take a football pundit/fan seriously if they said xxx 19 year old is a complete flop.

[The College Dropout]

It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs.

 

We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive.

 

The universally accepted flop of an 18 year old? Never. He scored 3 goals in 4 starts for them. As a left back at that. It took him plenty of starts before they managed to win a match he was involved in but a massive flop never good enough for Spurs? Get to f***.

 

They tried to flog him to Birmingham but they pulled out last minute due to funds. Was definitely looking at one point like his days could be numbered for Spurs.

 

Bale changed physically and added athleticism and power to his game.

 

He was always very athletic but he added real power to his game and physique aye.