England

[Smal]

The clamour for Grealish to start as though he's Messi is , but I think there's a strong argument to start him the next game and play Sterling on the right. Sterling is basically in the team to score goals and I don't think it matters whether he plays left of right at this point. 

[LionOfGosforth]

On the subject of Grealish, he appears to function more as a player to stretch tired defenders late in a game. You could argue any of the other attacking players could do the same thing really, though Grealish has a handy ability to win free kicks in dangerous areas as well. The personnel might change slightly (I doubt it though, GS is risk averse at his core) but the system and overall philosophy is rigid and will likely remain unless injury or game situation dictates. Honestly at this point, we are what we are, disciplined, motivated, organized and obviously very hard to score against. As mentioned by Pilko, we're everything that we've needed to be at a tournament but never were until now.

[The Prophet]

I do get what Beren was saying a page or two back. Southgate is being totally counterintuitive, fielding seven defensive players against a German team that was there for the taking.

 

I think Southgate and his team realised successful tournament teams are built from the back (Portugal, Spain, Greece, etc) and they're more than happy to grind it out. Even the great Spanish side was a pretty dull watch, despite their outragous abundance of talent.

 

I'd also say to win any tournament you have to ride your luck to a degree and we certainly did on a couple of occasions yesterday. Until we grabbed the second the crowd were on Southgate's back, if Muller finishes a chance you'd expect him to 9 times out of 10, the narrative is totally different. For that reason, while I can see there is method to Southgate's 'madness' the result doesn't vindicate all of his tactical decisions.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by The Prophet

[LionOfGosforth]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I do get what Beren was saying a page or two back. Southgate is being totally counterintuitive, fielding seven defensive players against a German team that was there for the taking.

 

I think Southgate and his team realised successful tournament teams are built from the back (Portugal, Spain, Greece, etc) and they're more than happy to grind it out. Even the great Spanish side was a pretty dull watch, despite their outragous abundance of talent.

 

I'd also say to win any tournament you have to ride your luck to a degree and we certainly did on a couple of occasions yesterday. Until we grabbed the second the crowd were on Southgate's back, if Muller finishes a chance you'd expect him to 9 times out of 10, the narrative is totally different. For that reason, while I can see there is method to Southgate's 'madness' the result doesn't vindicate all of his tactical decisions.

 

 

 

 

That was the direct result of an individual mistake, nothing at all to do with anything else, tactics, philosophy, whatever. I get it wouldn't stop the "narrative" anyway, but it's bollocks for anyone to suggest otherwise.

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

That was the direct result of an individual mistake, nothing at all to do with anything else, tactics, philosophy, whatever. I get it wouldn't stop the "narrative" anyway, but it's bollocks for anyone to suggest otherwise.

To play devils advocate, a large amount of goals boil down to a moment of individual quality or an individual error, if you play too cautiously you will be punished if either comes about.

[LionOfGosforth]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

To play devils advocate, a large amount of goals boil down to a moment of individual quality or an individual error, if you play too cautiously you will be punished if either comes about.

 

Correct and it can happen no matter how expansively (or otherwise) you play and how many chances you create and miss (or don't create at all). I honestly think some people expect us to play total football or something. GS has seemingly found a balance that works in the tournament format. It's not for the purist maybe, and there are risks to falling behind, and begs the question can we change in adversity? That's the big question that thankfully hasn't needed to be answered yet.

[LFEE]

Feel like I watched a different game to what the media is portraying. Germany the better team first half and Werner had a great chance to put them in front. A few other scares also with crosses etc. We had the RS long range attempt and the fortuitous chance falling to Kane on HT.

 

Second half was drifting until Grealish came on. Two goals aside the other moments I remember was a great Pickford save over the bar and the Muller chance that should’ve been buried to level things.

 

Rice praise continues to baffle me.

[54]

 

[James]

Who was the poster who once famously said that he’d ‘rather NUFC won a throw in than England win something’? Was it Stevieintoon? Always wondered how their opinion may have changed over the years.

[AJ9]

I get really really annoyed with the people who prattle and whinge about us not playing attacking football. Look at our record prior to Southgate. Look the football we've played for the past 25 years. England have been utterly boring, tactically clueless and at times, absolutely shit for all these years. As soon as we start actually winning some tournament games it's like our squad is Netherlands 74 being put in a straightjacket by some grandma. Based on the recently history we have absolutely no right to be playing expansive football and winning games, and lets face it, are still light years behind the few national teams that can do so. Absolutely mad English exceptionalism at its finest. People think that because they've seen Foden or Grealish do a few tricks that we should somehow be playing total football.

[Shearergol]

32 minutes ago, LFEE said:

Feel like I watched a different game to what the media is portraying. Germany the better team first half and Werner had a great chance to put them in front. A few other scares also with crosses etc. We had the RS long range attempt and the fortuitous chance falling to Kane on HT.

 

Second half was drifting until Grealish came on. Two goals aside the other moments I remember was a great Pickford save over the bar and the Muller chance that should’ve been buried to level things.

 

Rice praise continues to baffle me.

 

Even Klinsmann said that England were the better team in the first half. I can't remember being that concerned about Germany at all.

[TRon]

10 minutes ago, alijmitchell said:

I get really really annoyed with the people who prattle and whinge about us not playing attacking football. Look at our record prior to Southgate. Look the football we've played for the past 25 years. England have been utterly boring, tactically clueless and at times, absolutely shit for all these years. As soon as we start actually winning some tournament games it's like our squad is Netherlands 74 being put in a straightjacket by some grandma. Based on the recently history we have absolutely no right to be playing expansive football and winning games, and lets face it, are still light years behind the few national teams that can do so. Absolutely mad English exceptionalism at its finest. People think that because they've seen Foden or Grealish do a few tricks that we should somehow be playing total football.

 

Just got to look at what happened to France to see that playing the best football in the world is useless if you concede goals for fun at the other end. England have got goals in the team, the most important thing will be keeping their defence rock solid. This has always been a key in short format cup competitions, one of the reasons I thought Rafa would have won a cup if he was backed properly. 

[The Prophet]

20 minutes ago, alijmitchell said:

I get really really annoyed with the people who prattle and whinge about us not playing attacking football. Look at our record prior to Southgate. Look the football we've played for the past 25 years. England have been utterly boring, tactically clueless and at times, absolutely shit for all these years. As soon as we start actually winning some tournament games it's like our squad is Netherlands 74 being put in a straightjacket by some grandma. Based on the recently history we have absolutely no right to be playing expansive football and winning games, and lets face it, are still light years behind the few national teams that can do so. Absolutely mad English exceptionalism at its finest. People think that because they've seen Foden or Grealish do a few tricks that we should somehow be playing total football.

 

Isn't this the other extreme though? I'm more than happy for us to adopt a defensive approach when it suits, but you do need balance. Any Newcastle fan should know, battening down the hatches and hoping for a moment of quality at the other end will see you come unstuck eventually.

 

To clarify, that isn't to say Southgate hasn't done a good job. His team deserve credit for drilling us into a well organised defensive unit.

[Wullie]

29 minutes ago, alijmitchell said:

Based on the recently history we have absolutely no right to be playing expansive football and winning games, and lets face it, are still light years behind the few national teams that can do so. 

 

I don't even believe that these teams exist. They're a fiction that tends to be retrospectively applied to whichever team wins the latest tournament.

[Wullie]

3 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Isn't this the other extreme though? I'm more than happy for us to adopt a defensive approach when it suits, but you do need balance. Any Newcastle fan should know, battening down the hatches and hoping for a moment of quality at the other end will see you come unstuck eventually.

 

To clarify, that isn't to say Southgate hasn't done a good job. His team deserve credit for drilling us into a well organised defensive unit.

 

Batten down the hatches?? Is that how you think England played yesterday? I find that an outrageous statement.

 

[The Prophet]

It was more a general point about the two extreme views. Fans complaining about the football aren't giving us enough credit for the defensive side of the game. There's a lot to be said for not conceding a goal at this stage on the tournament.

 

Fans thinking we should be confined to a defensive system is equally as bizarre. We've been really poor as an attacking unit at times during the tournament, needlessly so.

 

As I said a couple of posts ago, I think Southgate and his team have realised building from the back is the key to winning tournaments, but you do need a bit of balance. It'll be really interesting to see his approach if we go behind. 

 

 

 

 

[Wullie]

I think we play like a boring good team. Benitez's Liverpool, Tuchel's Chelsea, basically any Juventus team you can remember before the last year or two. Win 1-0 or 2-0 most games, get the job done with a minimum of fuss, especially in cups, where results matter most.

 

I think we'll put at least 3 past Ukraine fwiw.

[jackyboy]

Any improvement must be down to Southgate having our supercoach alongside him

[joeyt]

19 hours ago, RodneyCisse said:

Saturday can’t some soon enough, everything from here on out is a bonus.

I find this a mad way of thinking

 

If we don't get to the final from now I reckon it's a failure

[Ste]

As defensive as people say England are, I don't recall any of the teams playing against us being particularly attacking either which says a lot. Germany went a goal down and didn't change from their 3-5-2/5-3-2. 

 

[The Prophet]

Playing conservatively is probably done so with energy levels in mind too. There's no way a number of the players could execute a high press or an energetic attack following a 50/60 game season.

[LiquidAK]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Playing conservatively is probably done so with energy levels in mind too. There's no way a number of the players could execute a high press or an energetic attack following a 50/60 game season.

This is probably a good shout actually. That's part of what killed us against Croatia at the World Cup. By the time of the semis the players just ran out of steam after 60 minutes and unfortunately hadn't put the game to bed by then after a pretty solid first half. Wouldn't be surprised if Southgate has made a point of avoiding that happening again, especially after such a busy club season.

[54]

 

[Dinho lad]

1 hour ago, 54 said:

 

 

[Smal]