Sima Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 5 hours ago, midds said: Never got the Cantona hype. Not saying he was shit, he was very good but the hype has always seemed disproportionate to me. Was going to put him based on him being utter dogmeat in Europe but he was such a leader and talisman for Man Utd for 5 or so years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Roberto Carlos? Nonsense. Over 100+ caps for Brazil teams that went to 2 World Cup finals winning 1, won 2 Copa’s. Over a decade at Real winning the CL 3 times. A key player in those teams. One of the players to redefine what a fullback could be. Scored goals from fullback. Technically and physically a wonderful player and played football with the right spirit. If he’s not an absolute legend and shouldn’t be celebrated as one of the best, most charismatic and entertaining fullbacks ever, I don’t who should. Philip Lahm can fuck off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 8 hours ago, midds said: Never got the Cantona hype. Not saying he was shit, he was very good but the hype has always seemed disproportionate to me. I like him in adverts mind 😎 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Roberto Carlos? Nonsense. Over 100+ caps for Brazil teams that went to 2 World Cup finals winning 1, won 2 Copa’s. Over a decade at Real winning the CL 3 times. A key player in those teams. One of the players to redefine what a fullback could be. Scored goals from fullback. Technically and physically a wonderful player and played football with the right spirit. If he’s not an absolute legend and shouldn’t be celebrated as one of the best, most charismatic and entertaining fullbacks ever, I don’t who should. Philip Lahm can fuck off. He can do all of that and still be overrated you know? Good that you bring Lahm up, he was a far superior fullback. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 8 hours ago, Pata said: I absolutely hated Ruud van Nistelrooy. He was a brilliant goalscorer and always in the right place but he must have been the worst pure footballer to be granted the superstar status. I reckon that accolade goes to Thomas Muller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, Sima said: He can do all of that and still be overrated you know? Good that you bring Lahm up, he was a far superior fullback. Nonsense. If anything he’s under rated. People focus on the freekick and his general freekick abilities that were not brilliant. Doesn’t get the accolades for his ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Seems people seem to think loads of international caps are a sign players aren’t overrated? No idea why, they are given out like sweets and most international matches mean absolutely nothing these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Roberto Carlos was a sensational full-back man, one of the very best. People started to underrate him because he didn’t score a crazy free-kick every time he took one and therefore he wasn’t so good after all. Same applied to Beckham who was a fantastic footballer who lacked pace and true physicality but would dominate a game and grab a team through by the scruff of its neck just by sheer energy, technical ability and leadership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastle Fan Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Roberto Carlos was certainly the best left back i've ever seen in my life, he did everything and more you'd want from a full-back and won it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastle Fan Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 11 hours ago, toon25 said: Just having this debate with a mate: who's the most overrated player in your lifetime... Appreciate this is dependent on number of factors. Eden Hazard Jack Grealish after his move to City Mesut Ozil David Luiz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Just now, Newcastle Fan said: Roberto Carlos was certainly the best left back i've ever seen in my life, he did everything and more you'd want from a full-back and won it all. I rated Ashley Cole higher myself, but Carlos was a complete revelation as a full-back/left-back or whatever when he played. A template for future generations. I watch a lot of kids’ football and it’s insane how good so many 7/8/9 year olds are at that position attacking wise especially. Same at CB, my boys’ team have a defender who is easily our best player and he’s at several academies, he’s a late developer, but my god this kid can play and for me I’d have him in central midfield he’s that good, but defensively at the back without him, even at under 8/9 level, any team without him will struggle, but with him he makes the difference. Another kid plays left of him and he’s amazing too, such a great left foot, a rampaging all-round full-back at 8 who attacks and defends like a mini Trippier for example, but can also play CB. The change in emphasis at that level from all about racking up goals to being able to defend, pass, positionally etc. is staggering from when I played as a kid and bodes well for the future of English football and it’s footballers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I think Grealish is underrated now if anything. Everyone saying he’s shit just because he’s not setting the world alight immediately after his move. He’s a brilliant player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Most overrated I can think of: Joe Cole, Lukas Podolski, Samir Nasri, Fernando Torres, Mario Balotelli. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) In hindsight I feel like all of the players that were involved in the GOAT conversation from Maradona to Messi were probably a bit overrated. It makes more sense now that people I knew who'd seen Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, and Best weren't bothered about players like Owen, Figo, Nedved, Davids, Beckham when they were talked about as being the best players in the world around 2001. Or when Zidane or Ronaldinho were talked about as being two of the best players ever in the mid-2000s. In my lifetime the first player that comes to mind is Raul. The amount of hype around him far surpassed anything I ever saw from him. Edited March 22, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) And FWIW I think Roberto Carlos is a fair shout. Fantastic going forward at the time but not a patch on Maldini's overall game for me. I still see him ranking very highly in all time lists when for me there have been better players since as well: Cole, Lahm, Marcelo. I was thinking that Cafu is possibly slightly overrated in my lifetime as well, but no, I think that's much more a case of Dani Alves still being criminally underrated. He's definitely the best RB I've seen. Edited March 22, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) I think another consideration to be taken into account is whether those players could thrive in “modern” playing styles. I imagine a good few former Ballon D’or nominees would struggle under high-energy/ pressing systems. Edited March 22, 2022 by McCormick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, SUPERTOON said: Seems people seem to think loads of international caps are a sign players aren’t overrated? No idea why, they are given out like sweets and most international matches mean absolutely nothing these days. Like who? Some players genuinely perform better for country than club and get caps that outsize their talent (Klose, Podolski). Or they are in weak generations (Robinho). I don't count England because they haven't been very good for a long time. But Brazil, Germany, Italy have had long periods of competitiveness. I think amount of appearances and length of service at a top club is a decent signifier as well. With Carlos - he's done everything. Club and international football he had amazing heights and longevity. Literally the best in his position, for a decade. He was important in those teams. Technical ability. Phsyical ability. Like people talk about Cole. Cole wasn't nearly as good as Carlos going forward. Like ability wise, he wasn't close. Carlos, Alves, Marcelo, TAA (a long way to go) made their opposite winger forget about their attacking game. Cole was good going forward but he was best as a pure defender. His best moments came when defending against elite players in counter-attacking teams. I think Cole was over-rated because he was one of the first footballers of his ilk to come through England. But he had to conform to make it work. Also gets extra points for being good for England when others were not. Similar to Joe Cole, ahead of his time by England standards. Tbf to Cole he was top 5 in his position for long time but he was never as devastating as Roberto Carlos, TAA, Alves, Marcelo etc. I think Gerrard was over-rated. Some of it not his fault. Played a lot of "hero-ball" and became uncoachable. A 10 with a tackle, graft and energy. Would've liked to have seen him under Fergie or prime Mourinho or at a top side. Influencedd a lot of tactically undisciplined players but at least they were good fun to watch (Fabregas, Ramsey to name 2). Once his athleticism went he wasn't able to compete at a decent level. Xabi Alonso. He gets put into that all-time Xavi, Pirlo list by some but he was more Carrick. Still an exceptional player. Edited March 22, 2022 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Like who? Some players genuinely perform better for country than club and get caps that outsize their talent (Klose, Podolski). Or they are in weak generations (Robinho). I think amount of appearances and length of service at a top club is a decent signifier as well. With Carlos - he's done everything. Club and international football he had amazing heights and longevity. He was important in those teams. Technical ability. Phsyical ability. People where arguing Beckham on 115 caps meant he wasn’t overrated, and really I’m also talking generally as well. Getting an international cap is not difficult these days. Look at some of the qualifying groups England have had over the last few years, we literally play pub teams the majority of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Imagine thinking Cafu and Roberto Carlos were overrated, man Two of the greatest full backs of all time who were instrumental in changing the way the game is played. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stottie Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I reckon many destroyer-type DMs are overrated. My favourite DMs are all capable of playing box to box, even if the tactics don't let them, or double as playmakers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 42 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said: Imagine thinking Cafu and Roberto Carlos were overrated, man Two of the greatest full backs of all time who were instrumental in changing the way the game is played. People are absolutely deluded I mean Roberto Carlos is only overrated if you consider him the undoubtedly best left back of all time. But if you consider him a top 5 or even top 3 left back of all time then hebis right where he belongs. Cafu is the greatest to do it on the other side though, so unsure on how he can be overrated... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingxlnc Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I think John Obi Mikel was overrated, never understood the hype. Internationally, Pique and Casillas I think are good but not in GOAT territory as they're often put in. In the modern-day, Pickford is definitely overrated as is Henderson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) Newcastle-Online. est 2004 'confundens hyperbolen pro malis et non legendi recte' Stick it on the badge. Edited March 22, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, kingxlnc said: I think John Obi Mikel was overrated, never understood the hype. Internationally, Pique and Casillas I think are good but not in GOAT territory as they're often put in. In the modern-day, Pickford is definitely overrated as is Henderson Henderson overrated? If we're now at the point where people rate him to the extent that he's actually seen as overrated, then he's done pretty well I reckon. I've rated him highly for about 10 years now, at least 5 of those years I only saw people maintain that he's shit. He brings so much more than just on the ball football ability. Even then I think his ability - particularly his first time balls forward - is underappreciated. Obviously he's a mackem but I'd love us to have a player like him in our midfield. Totally agree about Mikel btw, although tbf I think he was playing out of position at Chelsea. Pickford's much like Maguire for me, chalk and cheese depending on if they're playing for their club or for England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Strange how people say Maguire and Pickford perform well for England, when 90% of the time they are playing against pub sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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