80 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 It wouldn't be the end of the world if Dubs left and we kept Darlow as backup, but it would be diasppointing and 'worrrying'. To be honest, I didn't see us replacing Dubs as a priority for this season, but I thought improving his backup was important. If we're unlucky and Pope misses half the season somehow, Darlow replacing him could see us finish 4-5 places lower in the league on its own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: It's misleading if you're using it to claim Dubravka's distribution is much better than Pope's because you had a hunt about on FBRef like. Keepers are heavily restricted by the system they play under. I'm not saying there's nothing in what you saw but it's obviously nowhere near enough to make an informed opinion. It can literally be a case of Lascelles/Schar being instructed to come close and recieve the ball, compared to Burnley defenders staying higher up and not requesting it to feet (Not saying that is the case like). This basically is the case, tbh. Stats are massively context dependent on tactical systems anyway but this is basically 10x the case with something like goalkeeping distribution. They will wildly vary based on what they're told and expected to do on the pitch. I don't know how they define the limits of 'short passing' for a goalkeeper but Dubravka having 100% short passing if anything might actually be a sign that he has poor distribution, because he's being asked by his manager to only ever attempt play it to the two CBs and full backs in the absolute safest situations possible. A goalkeeper with better distribution will likely have slightly lower stats because they will be more comfortable, and encouraged, to play slightly riskier balls. A supporting stat for better context would be to also have the total # of shorter passes a keeper is playing per game. But again - this is more a tell of how a manager wants his team to play. Edited July 8, 2022 by ponsaelius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Edgar Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 4 hours ago, joeyt said: Bye then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 13 minutes ago, Yorkie said: I love FBRef like. You're right tbf, it's not like I've compared the playing styles of the two teams. My broader point was just that there's far less between Pope and Dubravka than Pope and Darlow and it's feasible that having the pair of them competing for places would lift them both, and that would be in Howe et al's thinking. The distribution shout was just one example of why there might not be much in it, but will concede that stats don't tell the full story. I spend hours on it My biggest hope is that there's a few things in Pope's game that will take us up a notch tbh, allowing Howe to further implament what he wants to do. Being calm under preasure and the ability to play around teams pressing from the front would benefit us further trying to play out from the back for example. As would Pope's apparent qualities as a sweeper. Whether or not he's actually better than Dubs at those things is well beyond my eye like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Dubravka going instantly makes the Pope signing a bit of a waste of resources imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Edgar Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 It is an upgrade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Even if there's not much in it, we've got a keeper who's 4 years younger for £10m. Even if we only got £5-6m or so back for Dubvravka it's good business. The worry is though we'd still have that huge gap between the clear number 1, and Darlow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I loved Dubs when he first came, but he has tailed off a fair bit in terms of everything that made him so impactful in his early days. There aren't too many positions I'd have been looking to upgrade before GK this summer, and I do think Pope will be a noticeable improvement in a lot of key areas. Suppose only time will tell, but £10M for a current England squad member who's still relatively "young" in his position surely can't be seen as a bad deal/a waste because it might move Dubravka to the exit door? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 36 minutes ago, David Edgar said: It is an upgrade Huge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, Rich said: I loved Dubs when he first came, but he has tailed off a fair bit in terms of everything that made him so impactful in his early days. There aren't too many positions I'd have been looking to upgrade before GK this summer, and I do think Pope will be a noticeable improvement in a lot of key areas. Suppose only time will tell, but £10M for a current England squad member who's still relatively "young" in his position surely can't be seen as a bad deal/a waste because it might move Dubravka to the exit door? That's my reasoning as well, and I am a Dubravka fan who didn't see the GK position as one that even needed upgrading, certainly not a priority. But if you can get an England goalkeeper for £10m due to circumstances falling a certain way, that's just good deal making. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 It might be harsh, but I feel that Dubravka moving on at the first sign of competition would be a bit poor on his part. I get that he wants to be number one, but there aren't too many PL sides where he won't have to earn it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I’ll be happy if Pope turns out to be a genuine upgrade on Dubravka, but the fact he makes the England squad does nothing for me. England don’t have any top keepers and haven’t since… David Seaman? Sometimes they barely scratch mediocre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, The Prophet said: It might be harsh, but I feel that Dubravka moving on at the first sign of competition would be a bit poor on his part. I get that he wants to be number one, but there aren't too many PL sides where he won't have to earn it. He's 34 and a top keeper, at this stage of his career I can understand he wants to be no 1. It wouldn't surprise me to see a PL club come in for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 A top keeper in what context? I like Dubravka and he’s done a good job overall here but if you look at our best 11 prior to Pope signing he’d unquestionably be the weakest link within that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillingtonMag Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 13 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: Dubravka going instantly makes the Pope signing a bit of a waste of resources imo. How? He's one of the best keepers in the league Dubravka is overrated on here was piss poor at times last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 36 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: A top keeper in what context? I like Dubravka and he’s done a good job overall here but if you look at our best 11 prior to Pope signing he’d unquestionably be the weakest link within that. He's a Premier league keeper and rated highly in this league. That would be my definition of a top keeper. I don't see him as a weak link, IMO the weak links are up front where we have poor end product and maybe CM where we don't control the game for large periods of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 You say rated highly in this league. By who? He’s an acceptable goalkeeper clearly on the slide who isn’t quite good enough for the next level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraguy Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Loves dubz dedicated and keen to learn I hope he gets a medal before he leaves us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I like Dubravka but I don't see any teams in the league where he goes in as #1 other than some of the promoted sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1tche Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Im not sure what people are seeing in Dubs, but he heas never been the 1st player i'd want upgraded in the team. Apart from a few mistakes (in about 3 years) and looking shaky getting back up to speed after his injury he's been a very good keeper for us. Pope and him are a very similar level so it should be whoever grabs the spot over pre season starts the season and either way i'm not sure it'll make all that much difference to us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) Competition for places doesn’t really seem to be a thing for keepers. Pretty much every team has a clear standout first choice who plays every game. I think Pope is a big upgrade but of course I’d prefer Dubs as backup than Darlow. I don’t think Dubs would start for many other top 10 PL teams, there are loads of good keepers in this league. Pope played for Burnley FFS. Edited July 9, 2022 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Ronaldo said: A top keeper in what context? I like Dubravka and he’s done a good job overall here but if you look at our best 11 prior to Pope signing he’d unquestionably be the weakest link within that. Disagree with that like. I think Pope is an upgrade but right midfield and right wing (assuming we go 433) are weaker positions than GK pre Pope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Ronaldo said: A top keeper in what context? I like Dubravka and he’s done a good job overall here but if you look at our best 11 prior to Pope signing he’d unquestionably be the weakest link within that. Howay man, RW is quite obviously where we needed to upgrade the most. Arguably CM and CB as well (as Botman hadn't signed yet at that point). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Just now, Nobody said: Howay man, RW is quite obviously where we needed to upgrade the most. Arguably CM and CB as well (as Botman hadn't signed yet at that point). Aye, after the season ended it was always LB, CB, winger then midfielder for me. I'd have taken Dubvravka for another season as number 1 but if we were in a position to get someone like Pope it was a no-brainer, particularly at the price we paid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I definitely wanted a new keeper. Not the top priority but pretty important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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