triggs Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 We've pretty much been awful in the first half of the season since we've come back up and then been good in the second half Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny1403 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Would love to see a comparison of our form in the first 19 games v the second 19 games in the last 3 season. Feels like every year we seem to kick off the shackles and start racking up wins before starting the next season horrendously again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 We’ve won 6 home games out of 17, do you think that’s acceptable? Unless we get a draw against Liverpool, our home form is likely to have been the same as we managed in our last relegation season. A lot of the games this season at home have been pretty shit. Pretty boring. But clearly, we're hard to beat at home. I think 6 home wins is acceptable, considering we're on 26 points from 17 games. Last season we lost 10 home games, and ended up on 25 points. I think 6 home wins is acceptable for a side who are happy with mediocrity. Every team should be aiming to win most of their home games, and not less than half 6 wins with 0 draws isn't good enough. 6 wins with 8 draws is acceptable. Were you happier last season when we won 8 home games but had less home points than this season? Yes, because there looked to be a coherent plan and no where near as reliant on luck as this season has. The entertainment was also far higher which is kind of the point in the first place. Sitting watching a team that is scared to venture into the opposition half and even at home is no fun. Watching a team that can't keep possession for more than 1 minute at a time is no fun. Watching at team that gets a corner and instead of attacking passes back to their own goal keeper is embarrassing. Watching a team getting schooled by the far and away relegation favourites is nothing to be happy with. Relying on other teams not performing and getting the odd lucky result is not a sustainable method. Luck runs out, and what's that? oh, low and behold a team is sitting in the relegation zone hoping to pull off a result on the last day which might keep them up only for a duff deflection to welcome the cold embrace of the championship We lost our first 5 home games last season. Let's be honest we were shit the first 11 home games of the season. Won 2 Drew 1 Lost 8 games. We had scored 7 goals in 11 home games. I remember the Brighton 1-0 loss at home. We played shit. West Ham 3-0 loss at home. We played shit. Fulham 0-0 at home. We had zero shots on target. We were beyond shit. We were very good in last 8 home games of season, and the entertainment level was a lot higher than this season - but the first 11 home games was shit and not entertaining. Samptime29 is right here mind. We paint over it because it was Rafa, but the first half of our home form last season was fucking awful and the football was lifting. Rafa got plenty of stick from certain people on here mind. But there was always hope with Rafa; he was trying to build something. What's Bruce doing to improve us long term? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 No I'm f**king well not! Thumbs down, and let the tigers off the chains Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 We’ve won 6 home games out of 17, do you think that’s acceptable? Unless we get a draw against Liverpool, our home form is likely to have been the same as we managed in our last relegation season. A lot of the games this season at home have been pretty shit. Pretty boring. But clearly, we're hard to beat at home. I think 6 home wins is acceptable, considering we're on 26 points from 17 games. Last season we lost 10 home games, and ended up on 25 points. I think 6 home wins is acceptable for a side who are happy with mediocrity. Every team should be aiming to win most of their home games, and not less than half 6 wins with 0 draws isn't good enough. 6 wins with 8 draws is acceptable. Were you happier last season when we won 8 home games but had less home points than this season? Yes, because there looked to be a coherent plan and no where near as reliant on luck as this season has. The entertainment was also far higher which is kind of the point in the first place. Sitting watching a team that is scared to venture into the opposition half and even at home is no fun. Watching a team that can't keep possession for more than 1 minute at a time is no fun. Watching at team that gets a corner and instead of attacking passes back to their own goal keeper is embarrassing. Watching a team getting schooled by the far and away relegation favourites is nothing to be happy with. Relying on other teams not performing and getting the odd lucky result is not a sustainable method. Luck runs out, and what's that? oh, low and behold a team is sitting in the relegation zone hoping to pull off a result on the last day which might keep them up only for a duff deflection to welcome the cold embrace of the championship We lost our first 5 home games last season. Let's be honest we were shit the first 11 home games of the season. Won 2 Drew 1 Lost 8 games. We had scored 7 goals in 11 home games. I remember the Brighton 1-0 loss at home. We played shit. West Ham 3-0 loss at home. We played shit. Fulham 0-0 at home. We had zero shots on target. We were beyond shit. We were very good in last 8 home games of season, and the entertainment level was a lot higher than this season - but the first 11 home games was shit and not entertaining. Samptime29 is right here mind. We paint over it because it was Rafa, but the first half of our home form last season was fucking awful and the football was lifting. Rafa got plenty of stick from certain people on here mind. But there was always hope with Rafa; he was trying to build something. What's Bruce doing to improve us long term? This....we might have lost more but at least there was clear signs of tactics and a plan, which did work after a bit of time. What's Bruce's gameplan? Genuinely? If it's 'defend and hope for a bit of magic' then he doesn't deserve any credit at all. I could do that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 If he wanted to improve us long term he wouldn't be here. We know Ashley's requirements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 We’ve won 6 home games out of 17, do you think that’s acceptable? Unless we get a draw against Liverpool, our home form is likely to have been the same as we managed in our last relegation season. A lot of the games this season at home have been pretty shit. Pretty boring. But clearly, we're hard to beat at home. I think 6 home wins is acceptable, considering we're on 26 points from 17 games. Last season we lost 10 home games, and ended up on 25 points. I think 6 home wins is acceptable for a side who are happy with mediocrity. Every team should be aiming to win most of their home games, and not less than half 6 wins with 0 draws isn't good enough. 6 wins with 8 draws is acceptable. Were you happier last season when we won 8 home games but had less home points than this season? Yes, because there looked to be a coherent plan and no where near as reliant on luck as this season has. The entertainment was also far higher which is kind of the point in the first place. Sitting watching a team that is scared to venture into the opposition half and even at home is no fun. Watching a team that can't keep possession for more than 1 minute at a time is no fun. Watching at team that gets a corner and instead of attacking passes back to their own goal keeper is embarrassing. Watching a team getting schooled by the far and away relegation favourites is nothing to be happy with. Relying on other teams not performing and getting the odd lucky result is not a sustainable method. Luck runs out, and what's that? oh, low and behold a team is sitting in the relegation zone hoping to pull off a result on the last day which might keep them up only for a duff deflection to welcome the cold embrace of the championship We lost our first 5 home games last season. Let's be honest we were shit the first 11 home games of the season. Won 2 Drew 1 Lost 8 games. We had scored 7 goals in 11 home games. I remember the Brighton 1-0 loss at home. We played shit. West Ham 3-0 loss at home. We played shit. Fulham 0-0 at home. We had zero shots on target. We were beyond shit. We were very good in last 8 home games of season, and the entertainment level was a lot higher than this season - but the first 11 home games was shit and not entertaining. Samptime29 is right here mind. We paint over it because it was Rafa, but the first half of our home form last season was fucking awful and the football was lifting. Rafa got plenty of stick from certain people on here mind. But there was always hope with Rafa; he was trying to build something. What's Bruce doing to improve us long term? I wasn't trying to stick up for Bruce with that comment, I think he is fucking useless and should be nowhere near the club. Was just agreeing on the part Samptime mentioned about the first half of last season being shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 So basically to me this is the narrative of Steve Bruce's tactics and how we've played this season Start of the season he wanted us to play expansive attacking football, which turned out to mean throwing on random teams out of position and them milling around doing nowt. He then complains a lot blaming Rafa for his own failings as a coach and reverts to three at the back and copy Rafa's defensive work. This works in shoring things up but because Bruce hasn't paid attention to premier league football for the past decade (why would you bother?) he does not understand the importance of possession, not even that if you're playing not for possession you have to account for the fact a lot of teams are and will press high. This means he drastically undervalues the technical defenders on the books, Schar and Lejeune and instead persists with the less error prone ones but ones who can't reliably get the ball out the back and past the high press. This continues until lockdown Post lockdown we are safe and finally Steve Bruce's just have fun lads has actually had some benefit, some of out players are freer and don't quite have weight of the world on their shoulders, resulting in an improved performance. I am happier with how we are playing now and Bruce does deserve some credit for that. But continually idiotic pundits have been hammering that Bruce overachieved before the lockdown. He did because we flucked an absurd number of points, and sorry my eyes aren't lying here, we were absolutely turgid for large part of the season. Some of it is down to not having a proper centre forward sure, however Bruce also tied himself to the Joelinton deal and said he was happy. The crowd demanding he stay post takeover (not that the takeover will ever happen :/) really think he can attract a higher caliber of talent to sign for us? Can he really compete further up the table with such a lack of interest in posession football? You can only go so far with wacking it up and hoping for some magic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samptime29 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Rondon and Perez scored 25 goals between them last season. Take that away from any team, and there is a big void. I think we were always going to sell Perez, but if we'd kept Rondon, and only signed ASM - it would be interesting to see what happened. Would Bruce have started 5 at the back, or went with 4? Rondon, Miggy, ASM sounds more dangerous, then Joelinton, Miggy, ASM IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samptime29 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Would love to see a comparison of our form in the first 19 games v the second 19 games in the last 3 season. Feels like every year we seem to kick off the shackles and start racking up wins before starting the next season horrendously again. We do always seem to start slowly (especially first 9-10 games). Last season: 17 points from first 19 games, 29 points from next 19 games. This season: 25 points from first 19 games, 18 points from next 14 games (with 5 games to go.). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 We started badly, but pundits have wiped our second half of the season last year from the memory banks completely. And of course without Rondon we are rubbish. Bruce just sucked up to Ashley and took it because that's why he's signed, not due to any abilities, because he provided a nice narrative of a geordie managing us and because he wouldn't kick up a fuss about being shafted by Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 We’ve won 6 home games out of 17, do you think that’s acceptable? Unless we get a draw against Liverpool, our home form is likely to have been the same as we managed in our last relegation season. A lot of the games this season at home have been pretty shit. Pretty boring. But clearly, we're hard to beat at home. I think 6 home wins is acceptable, considering we're on 26 points from 17 games. Last season we lost 10 home games, and ended up on 25 points. I think 6 home wins is acceptable for a side who are happy with mediocrity. Every team should be aiming to win most of their home games, and not less than half 6 wins with 0 draws isn't good enough. 6 wins with 8 draws is acceptable. Were you happier last season when we won 8 home games but had less home points than this season? Yes, because there looked to be a coherent plan and no where near as reliant on luck as this season has. The entertainment was also far higher which is kind of the point in the first place. Sitting watching a team that is scared to venture into the opposition half and even at home is no fun. Watching a team that can't keep possession for more than 1 minute at a time is no fun. Watching at team that gets a corner and instead of attacking passes back to their own goal keeper is embarrassing. Watching a team getting schooled by the far and away relegation favourites is nothing to be happy with. Relying on other teams not performing and getting the odd lucky result is not a sustainable method. Luck runs out, and what's that? oh, low and behold a team is sitting in the relegation zone hoping to pull off a result on the last day which might keep them up only for a duff deflection to welcome the cold embrace of the championship We lost our first 5 home games last season. Let's be honest we were shit the first 11 home games of the season. Won 2 Drew 1 Lost 8 games. We had scored 7 goals in 11 home games. I remember the Brighton 1-0 loss at home. We played shit. West Ham 3-0 loss at home. We played shit. Fulham 0-0 at home. We had zero shots on target. We were beyond shit. We were very good in last 8 home games of season, and the entertainment level was a lot higher than this season - but the first 11 home games was shit and not entertaining. Samptime29 is right here mind. We paint over it because it was Rafa, but the first half of our home form last season was fucking awful and the football was lifting. Rafa got plenty of stick from certain people on here mind. But there was always hope with Rafa; he was trying to build something. What's Bruce doing to improve us long term? I wasn't trying to stick up for Bruce with that comment, I think he is fucking useless and should be nowhere near the club. Was just agreeing on the part Samptime mentioned about the first half of last season being shite. Never understand this argument "I think he's shite but look at these figures etc" I'm not interested in figures or stats, I only want a manager who I think will make us contenders given the right backing. I would back Rafa over Bruce and that's all there is to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Interesting take from Michael Chopra on Brucey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Holden Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Interesting take from Michael Chopra on Brucey. Aye wonder what's gone on there. Bruce hasn't managed Chopra has he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Interesting take from Michael Chopra on Brucey. Aye wonder what's gone on there. Bruce hasn't managed Chopra has he? Did they cross paths at Sunderland? Either way, what a little cocktease Chops is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Sunderland wasn’t it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Holden Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Interesting take from Michael Chopra on Brucey. Aye wonder what's gone on there. Bruce hasn't managed Chopra has he? Did they cross paths at Sunderland? Either way, what a little cocktease Chops is. Oh aye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Having double checked it looks like Chopra was out the door the summer that Bruce was arriving. Hard feelings over not being given a chance? That is if Bruce was even in place at the time the decision was made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 There was only a small overlap. Bruce took over the mackems in June 2009, Chopra signed for Cardiff permanently on 1 July. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 That's a bit naughty of Chopra really. I'd be the last to want to give Bruce a chance but I don't think it's fair to post cryptic stuff like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I just dont get the debate, the semantics, the statistics and the arguement. Bruce is, and always has been, an average manager. Upper end championship, lower end premiership, much like Neil Warnock or whatever. I suspect Bruce knows very little about tactics, setting up suitable conditions to have a winning mentality or the aptitude for having the players in peak physical condition. He might have a few decent coaches alongside him, who could help him mind. On the other hand, Bruce does a have a wealth of experience in the game, including winning trophies as a player. I'm also of the impression that most of the players who he has, actually quite like him as a bloke, which means they will at least try and play for him. His limited knowledge of tactics will, on occasion, see the side have peaks in form. My theory is that players often react well to basic footballing philosophy. 4 at the back, work hard, try and score more than opposition, that sort of stuff. Thick players like Shelvey, Richie and Lascelles will lap that shit up. Sadly however, unlike our previous manager this approach will only ever see us mid-table, because its basic and simple. So while you argue the semantics of Rafa last season or Bruce this season, remember this; Rafa was unhappy with last season and wanted to take the side and club to the next level. Bruce, on the other hand, will be drinking champagne and dancing with the owner in the boardroom at his apparent "success". I want more, so did Rafa, Bruce thinks we are fine where we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I just dont get the debate, the semantics, the statistics and the arguement. Bruce is, and always has been, an average manager. Upper end championship, lower end premiership, much like Neil Warnock or whatever. I suspect Bruce knows very little about tactics, setting up suitable conditions to have a winning mentality or the aptitude for having the players in peak physical condition. He might have a few decent coaches alongside him, who could help him mind. On the other hand, Bruce does a have a wealth of experience in the game, including winning trophies as a player. I'm also of the impression that most of the players who he has, actually quite like him as a bloke, which means they will at least try and play for him. His limited knowledge of tactics will, on occasion, see the side have peaks in form. My theory is that players often react well to basic footballing philosophy. 4 at the back, work hard, try and score more than opposition, that sort of stuff. Thick players like Shelvey, Richie and Lascelles will lap that shit up. Sadly however, unlike our previous manager this approach will only ever see us mid-table, because its basic and simple. So while you argue the semantics of Rafa last season or Bruce this season, remember this; Rafa was unhappy with last season and wanted to take the side and club to the next level. Bruce, on the other hand, will be drinking champagne and dancing with the owner in the boardroom at his apparent "success". I want more, so did Rafa, Bruce thinks we are fine where we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Interesting take from Michael Chopra on Brucey. Aye wonder what's gone on there. Bruce hasn't managed Chopra has he? He hasn't managed me, but I'm 99% sure he's a cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Quite noticeable that when Bruce has to use some of the newer members of the squad who haven't been drilled on defensive shape and practices by Rafa, we look all over the place with no one having any idea where their teammates are. Always thought that the longer Bruce stays in charge, we will see our former defensive discipline slowly fall apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marki Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 he,s just keeping the managers seat warm , he,ll be gone soon enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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