Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP

[Robster]

Also local journalists have actually spoke to PIF, Mark Douglas stated he was told they’d be back like a shot to complete deal if given go ahead.

You must see that that is a nonsensical statement though. It's worth nothing because the PL are clearly not just going to say "oh, ok then".

[Shearergol]

PIF said that if the PL ever decide to give the deal the green light then they'll come back didn't they?

 

In the meantime they're probably looking at other options and not really doing anything to get this deal sorted. If anyone it will just be Staveley and Ashley.

 

I don't think they said that. People have assumed it.

 

“Even now, if the Premier League came to us and said ‘we will approve you’ we would do this deal tomorrow, all three parties of the consortium,” Amanda Staveley interviewed in The Athletic on 30th July.

 

Massive massive pinch of salt. I think that's pretty obvious.

 

Why? Anyway, the point is that people haven't just assumed it, Staveley has been directly quoted as saying it.

 

It's a fair point, yeah. But for me I think she's very calculated and says things for a reason. It's a moot point anyway, given we know it's not gonna get approved.

[Whitley mag]

Also local journalists have actually spoke to PIF, Mark Douglas stated he was told they’d be back like a shot to complete deal if given go ahead.

You must see that that is a nonsensical statement though. It's worth nothing because the PL are clearly not just going to say "oh, ok then".

 

Is there not a scenario where maybe political interventions alongside informal discreet discussions, may lead to a scenario where unofficial nods and winks are given which gives PIF the confidence to return ?

[Robster]

Also local journalists have actually spoke to PIF, Mark Douglas stated he was told they’d be back like a shot to complete deal if given go ahead.

You must see that that is a nonsensical statement though. It's worth nothing because the PL are clearly not just going to say "oh, ok then".

Is there not a scenario where maybe political interventions alongside informal discreet discussions, may lead to a scenario where unofficial nods and winks are given which gives PIF the confidence to return ?

Oh of course, I would agree that that is not beyond the realms of possibility.

In my opinion though, the chance of it happening to help Newcastle United, is very small.

[Whitley mag]

Also local journalists have actually spoke to PIF, Mark Douglas stated he was told they’d be back like a shot to complete deal if given go ahead.

You must see that that is a nonsensical statement though. It's worth nothing because the PL are clearly not just going to say "oh, ok then".

Is there not a scenario where maybe political interventions alongside informal discreet discussions, may lead to a scenario where unofficial nods and winks are given which gives PIF the confidence to return ?

Oh of course, I would agree that that is not beyond the realms of possibility.

In my opinion though, the chance of it happening to help Newcastle United, is very small.

 

I don’t disagree our history certainly points to nothing good happening to us.

[Jackie Broon]

PIF said that if the PL ever decide to give the deal the green light then they'll come back didn't they?

 

In the meantime they're probably looking at other options and not really doing anything to get this deal sorted. If anyone it will just be Staveley and Ashley.

 

I don't think they said that. People have assumed it.

 

“Even now, if the Premier League came to us and said ‘we will approve you’ we would do this deal tomorrow, all three parties of the consortium,” Amanda Staveley interviewed in The Athletic on 30th July.

 

Massive massive pinch of salt. I think that's pretty obvious.

 

Why? Anyway, the point is that people haven't just assumed it, Staveley has been directly quoted as saying it.

 

It's a fair point, yeah. But for me I think she's very calculated and says things for a reason. It's a moot point anyway, given we know it's not gonna get approved.

 

I agree, but she would have no reason to say that if the deal were completely dead.

 

We know absolutely nothing, everything that has been said publicly from every side possibly has an ulterior motive. For all we know there there could be an arbitration or appeal process going on or an alternative funding arrangement with more distance from the Saudi state is being worked out, or it could be completely dead. What we do know is that all of the publicly available elements of the the legal framework for the deal are still in place, so the deal could probably be concluded completely out of the public eye this time.

 

 

[B-more Mag]

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

 

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. My point is I don't see any reason to believe any real or productive "talks" are happening.

 

Talks are either on or off. There's no middle ground here that makes sense imo.

 

So the notion of non productive talks taking place makes no sense. Either they're all in or they're not.

 

Got it: you're being pedantic. Cool.

 

People can signal to the press that they'd still be "interested". They can tell each other they'd still do a deal if any of x, y, or z happen. I guess you'd call that talks, since you're operating on an I/O basis. But the reality is there's no there there.

Crikey. Salty much?

 

I'm the pedant whilst you redefine and stretch what the reported "talks" could mean? How about they mean negoiations are still ongoing? That is far less convoluted than what you're offering.

 

Because if as you say the most likely situation is that PIF are out, then the other 2 parties expressing "interest" means precisely f*** all and certainly don't constitute "talks" in the manner you are inferring. There's a big f*** off £280m gap to fill ffs.

 

It just doesn't make sense, what's hard to understand about that?

 

I don't mean to be salty, but I don't know if you misread my initial post or what. I do not think negotiations are happening. I think I pretty expressly indicated that there's no basis for people to infer that the PIF's statement was a mastermind's red herring to throw those meddling kids off track and that double-secret negotiations are really going on. Maybe writing "not 100% dead for all time" was misleading? That wasn't meant to suggest that I think there's anything going on--I've just seen a very, very few deals peter out then get closed after circumstances change, and it's dumb to use absolutes.

[Strawberry]

Back in April and May, there was regular dialogue between Barnes and Staveley’s group, which was majority-funded by Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund (PIF), over contracts and transfers and everything else. That dialogue has not stopped; as Newcastle said in a statement when the consortium withdrew from the Premier League Owners’ and Directors’ Test, they are still “100 per cent committed” to the deal but time has ticked on and players have moved on.

 

 

 

GC from yesterday article I wonder why he decided to give clues this weekend here and there.

[Thumbheed]

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

 

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. My point is I don't see any reason to believe any real or productive "talks" are happening.

 

Talks are either on or off. There's no middle ground here that makes sense imo.

 

So the notion of non productive talks taking place makes no sense. Either they're all in or they're not.

 

Got it: you're being pedantic. Cool.

 

People can signal to the press that they'd still be "interested". They can tell each other they'd still do a deal if any of x, y, or z happen. I guess you'd call that talks, since you're operating on an I/O basis. But the reality is there's no there there.

Crikey. Salty much?

 

I'm the pedant whilst you redefine and stretch what the reported "talks" could mean? How about they mean negoiations are still ongoing? That is far less convoluted than what you're offering.

 

Because if as you say the most likely situation is that PIF are out, then the other 2 parties expressing "interest" means precisely f*** all and certainly don't constitute "talks" in the manner you are inferring. There's a big f*** off £280m gap to fill ffs.

 

It just doesn't make sense, what's hard to understand about that?

 

I don't mean to be salty, but I don't know if you misread my initial post or what. I do not think negotiations are happening. I think I pretty expressly indicated that there's no basis for people to infer that the PIF's statement was a mastermind's red herring to throw those meddling kids off track and that double-secret negotiations are really going on. Maybe writing "not 100% dead for all time" was misleading? That wasn't meant to suggest that I think there's anything going on--I've just seen a very, very few deals peter out then get closed after circumstances change, and it's dumb to use absolutes.

 

Aye! That is what confused me, because it seemed clear to me you were saying PIF were out but the deal was "100% not dead", that didn't make sense to me, but neither does the assertion that you can't talk in absolutes in regards to this. You're essentially saying I think it's definitely off, but I can't rule out it not being on.

 

I've probably totally got the wrong end of the stick here. All good.

[B-more Mag]

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

 

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. My point is I don't see any reason to believe any real or productive "talks" are happening.

 

Talks are either on or off. There's no middle ground here that makes sense imo.

 

So the notion of non productive talks taking place makes no sense. Either they're all in or they're not.

 

Got it: you're being pedantic. Cool.

 

People can signal to the press that they'd still be "interested". They can tell each other they'd still do a deal if any of x, y, or z happen. I guess you'd call that talks, since you're operating on an I/O basis. But the reality is there's no there there.

Crikey. Salty much?

 

I'm the pedant whilst you redefine and stretch what the reported "talks" could mean? How about they mean negoiations are still ongoing? That is far less convoluted than what you're offering.

 

Because if as you say the most likely situation is that PIF are out, then the other 2 parties expressing "interest" means precisely f*** all and certainly don't constitute "talks" in the manner you are inferring. There's a big f*** off £280m gap to fill ffs.

 

It just doesn't make sense, what's hard to understand about that?

 

I don't mean to be salty, but I don't know if you misread my initial post or what. I do not think negotiations are happening. I think I pretty expressly indicated that there's no basis for people to infer that the PIF's statement was a mastermind's red herring to throw those meddling kids off track and that double-secret negotiations are really going on. Maybe writing "not 100% dead for all time" was misleading? That wasn't meant to suggest that I think there's anything going on--I've just seen a very, very few deals peter out then get closed after circumstances change, and it's dumb to use absolutes.

 

Aye! That is what confused me, because it seemed clear to me you were saying PIF were out but the deal was "100% not dead", that didn't make sense to me, but neither does the assertion that you can't talk in absolutes in regards to this. You're essentially saying I think it's definitely off, but I can't rule out it not being on.

 

I've probably totally got the wrong end of the stick here. All good.

 

That's it. And your point about absolutes is well taken. Apologies for being a bit of a dick. 

[Thumbheed]

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

 

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. My point is I don't see any reason to believe any real or productive "talks" are happening.

 

Talks are either on or off. There's no middle ground here that makes sense imo.

 

So the notion of non productive talks taking place makes no sense. Either they're all in or they're not.

 

Got it: you're being pedantic. Cool.

 

People can signal to the press that they'd still be "interested". They can tell each other they'd still do a deal if any of x, y, or z happen. I guess you'd call that talks, since you're operating on an I/O basis. But the reality is there's no there there.

Crikey. Salty much?

 

I'm the pedant whilst you redefine and stretch what the reported "talks" could mean? How about they mean negoiations are still ongoing? That is far less convoluted than what you're offering.

 

Because if as you say the most likely situation is that PIF are out, then the other 2 parties expressing "interest" means precisely f*** all and certainly don't constitute "talks" in the manner you are inferring. There's a big f*** off £280m gap to fill ffs.

 

It just doesn't make sense, what's hard to understand about that?

 

I don't mean to be salty, but I don't know if you misread my initial post or what. I do not think negotiations are happening. I think I pretty expressly indicated that there's no basis for people to infer that the PIF's statement was a mastermind's red herring to throw those meddling kids off track and that double-secret negotiations are really going on. Maybe writing "not 100% dead for all time" was misleading? That wasn't meant to suggest that I think there's anything going on--I've just seen a very, very few deals peter out then get closed after circumstances change, and it's dumb to use absolutes.

 

Aye! That is what confused me, because it seemed clear to me you were saying PIF were out but the deal was "100% not dead", that didn't make sense to me, but neither does the assertion that you can't talk in absolutes in regards to this. You're essentially saying I think it's definitely off, but I can't rule out it not being on.

 

I've probably totally got the wrong end of the stick here. All good.

 

That's it. And your point about absolutes is well taken. Apologies for being a bit of a dick. 

 

I'm just absolutely desperate for this to go through tbh.

[James]

Going to throw this out there:

 

Ashley has backed every single manager bar KK during their first full summer transfer window. In fact his failings seem to occur in the windows thereafter.

 

Discuss

[Yorkie]

It's true, but Christ knows what we learn from that. That he's an idiot who doesn't know how to run a proper football club? We already knew that.

[BlackandWhite]

Going to throw this out there:

 

Ashley has backed every single manager bar KK during their first full summer transfer window. In fact his failings seem to occur in the windows thereafter.

 

Discuss

 

Not really. Rafa had to sell players in order to buy them. We made a 30m profit in his first window.

 

McClaren was the only one to get a serious backing, and you couldn’t have had bigger groups of clowns in charge of the club at the time.

 

Even in Pardew’s first window we didn’t spend much, we just got lucky and landed a few bargains. Besides the spending  wasn’t even as much as we received from Caroll’s 35m transfer to Liverpool only a few months earlier iirc.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Not linking this to PIF still being in discussions behind the scenes but how serious are the Saudis into getting into Football?

 

I can see them hitting problems in France due to PSG's owners, Germany is a no go and how receptive would the Spanish FA be to someone breaking up the Barca/Real duopoly?

 

This really leaves the Premier League as the best route for them so could it be that there will be some form of an offshoot of PIF being put together in the background who will then come back in for us or another club?

 

Edit, Italy obviously are a route that I forgot about when coming up with this hypothesis!

[Strawberry]

Not linking this to PIF still being in discussions behind the scenes but how serious are the Saudis into getting into Football?

 

I can see them hitting problems in France due to PSG's owners, Germany is a no go and how receptive would the Spanish FA be to someone breaking up the Barca/Real duopoly?

 

This really leaves the Premier League as the best route for them so could it be that there will be some form of an offshoot of PIF being put together in the background who will then come back in for us or another club?

 

Edit, Italy obviously are a route that I forgot about when coming up with this hypothesis!

 

With AC Milan they can be rule the world to be fair.

[Thumbheed]

Not linking this to PIF still being in discussions behind the scenes but how serious are the Saudis into getting into Football?

 

I can see them hitting problems in France due to PSG's owners, Germany is a no go and how receptive would the Spanish FA be to someone breaking up the Barca/Real duopoly?

 

This really leaves the Premier League as the best route for them so could it be that there will be some form of an offshoot of PIF being put together in the background who will then come back in for us or another club?

 

Edit, Italy obviously are a route that I forgot about when coming up with this hypothesis!

 

I'd say pretty serious. Soft power over a UK Government who are desperate to suckle at their teet whilst they negotiate trade deals for Brexit will surely be at the forefront of their thinking. Not to mention Sportswashing on a global scale. I dont think that opportunity lends itself in other countries.

[Guest Cheesy Beans]

Going to throw this out there:

 

Ashley has backed every single manager bar KK during their first full summer transfer window. In fact his failings seem to occur in the windows thereafter.

 

Discuss

 

That would insinuate the manager has a say on transfers, which we know they don’t.

 

Players are bought for the manager, usually with the hope of selling them on. We only buy players outside of that remit if we are in trouble/desperate need.

 

It’s interesting that the only two talented managers we’ve had (KK and Rafa) are the only two who haven’t been backed at all.

[cannybagoftudor]

This is schrodinger's takeover.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Going to throw this out there:

 

Ashley has backed every single manager bar KK during their first full summer transfer window. In fact his failings seem to occur in the windows thereafter.

 

Discuss

 

Wish you’d have kept it in.

[duo]

Going to throw this out there:

 

Ashley has backed every single manager bar KK during their first full summer transfer window. In fact his failings seem to occur in the windows thereafter.

 

Discuss

[mighty__mag]

Going to throw this out there:

 

Ashley has backed every single manager bar KK during their first full summer transfer window. In fact his failings seem to occur in the windows thereafter.

 

Discuss

 

I still cant get over the fact Steve McClaren was the most backed by Ashley, and the players that arrived he couldn't do anything with them, most of them went on to prove they're still very good players as individuals, yet McClaren literally took us down leaving us in an impossible fight.

 

It's just bizarre how Ashley chooses to operate, or is actually advised to operate and chooses to listen to idiots over legends like KK and Rafa.

[Darth Crooks]

He doesn’t really listen to anyone. He has a method and football has to fit in with it. Buy at a what seems like a deal and sell at profit. If you’re an underling you’re compliant and don’t cause a fuss. One big sycophant fest. I have next to zero time for Pardew or Bruce and their ilk for that reason - they know this and still plead to be respected. I don’t know how people have enough love for this still to be excited. I don’t live in the city tbf and never had an ST but I think the point remains. I finally lost it for good this seasons end/summer.

[Guest]

As it turns out, their deposit has paid for 50% of our budget.

[Raconteur]

As it turns out, their deposit has paid for 50% of our budget.

 

I'm finding that uproariously funny when it should probably make me cry