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The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

UncleBingo

by UncleBingo
in Football

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Ronaldo

Ronaldo

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

It's a bit vague. He could be (and probably is, imo) referring to what they are doing in terms of human rights abuses etc. I don't think he means the vast majority of fans are against long overdue investment and respect towards the football club. 

 

I don't feel strong enough about it to stand and protest with them, which is why I didn't, and didn't even particularly look into it, but what I think is totally wrong is calling them embarrassing or not Newcastle fans. 


Our owners aren’t abusing anyone’s human rights though.

 

And there’s this:

 

”We’re confident the majority of the fans are good people and don’t support the ownership.” 

 

Clowns.

 

 

Edited by Ronaldo

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Chicken Dancer

Chicken Dancer

Posted
Posted

I can't lie, just being able to support Newcastle again and feel the energy in the city is probably my overwhelming emotion when it comes to this.

 

Do I agree with what goes on in Saudi Arabia? Of course I don't. It's medieval, barbaric and frankly terrifying. 

 

Would I rather we were owned by somebody else? Definitely. I take my hat off to the lads protesting, but they really were pissing in the wind. Good on them for standing up for what they believe in - certainly more than I have done. I'm a fickle bastard who just wants to enjoy football for what it is, and I guess that that's how most of us feel. KSA owning us - directly or not - does make me a tad uncomfortable, but not enough for me not to enjoy what's happening now. There's a lot of good people involved in NUFC now, including AS (at face value anyway)/

 

That probably makes me a bastard but it is what it is. Like I say, I'm probably fickle and naive.

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geordiesteve710

geordiesteve710

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

From memory the PL backed themselves into a corner. They’d been sharing info, the Big 6 had been sticking their oar in and the CAT outcome paved the way for a January reveal that the PL didn’t want to happen. 
 

The actual approval came very quickly in the.

 

Fans of other clubs forget that the govt petition wasn’t about getting approval, it was about transparency and steadfast refusal of the PL to make a decision.

 

If the PL had gone about preventing the takeover in a transparent way and within their own rules then it wouldn’t have gone through.

 

The takeover had all but been approved months earlier until all and sundry got involved.

 

I’m no fan of RSA but the PL fucked up and everyone tried to do us over.

 

Yep, this seems similar to my recollection of events.

 

I don't know what piece of evidence the club had got hold of, but it was clearly something big and clearly something that the PL really really really didn't want in the public domain.

 

This is purely speculation on my part, but I reckon that if it ever does come out then the PL might decide that the "legally binding assurances" of no Saudi control have been breached and try to fuck us over again.

 

The whole episode shone a light on how dodgy an organisation the PL is and how it is not fit for purpose of regulating issues like who gets to own football clubs. Just because we got our own way doesn’t mean the system doesn't need wholesale reform.

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Stifler

Stifler

Posted
Posted

I’m pretty sure that it was reported that West Ham, and possibly Man City gave Newcastle evidence that the Premier League were sending emails to the other 19 clubs. Then the face slipped and it was widely reported that they had phone calls etc with the other 19 clubs and that certain clubs were actively encouraging the Premier League and other clubs to force the takeover to be rejected. I think it’s all this which the Premier League were fucked against during the court case.

I’m also pretty sure that we evidence that the Premier League weren’t exactly unaware and against the ESL proposals as they made out and that this was going to be made public during the court case.

 

At one point wasn’t the judge even dismissing the Premier League’s arguments out of hand? What was going to be released during that court case is what forced the takeover through and it had fuck all to do with piracy being dealt with or assurances over ownership that the media and the Premier League made it out to be.

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AyeDubbleYoo

AyeDubbleYoo

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Slim said:

I seen it as the Saudis were pirating the premier league.  They then paid a huge amount of money and said they would stop doing it.


I this is pretty much it. So Qatar stopped applying so much pressure against the deal. 
 

Not saying the other clubs didn’t also want to stop the deal, obvs. 

 

 

Edited by AyeDubbleYoo

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Tsunami

Tsunami

Posted
Posted

I’m firmly of the opinion that the PL were getting pressure to reject the takeover but were reluctant to make an official decision. That would allow PIF to challenge and the PL would have to argue what part of the O&D test had failed. At one point the PL wanted individuals to take the test knowing that would never happen. They hoped procrastinating would make PIF walk away again. The PL didn’t follow their own rules and that was their downfall.

 

At the time everyone seemed to be of the opinion that Legal Counsel must have told the PL that the game was up, tell RSA to settle with BEIN and they could then approve the takeover and get themselves out of a hole. As said, the judge presiding over the CAT case, almost laughed at some of rabbit holes the PL lawyers were trying to lead him down. 
 

As hard as it may seem, the correct decision was made albeit in favour of a barbaric regime. But, the PL said early on that separation between PIF and the State wasn’t actually an issue. 
 

We should be the last of the State takeovers but I’m not aware of any tightening of the rules so far? 

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Tisd09

Tisd09

Posted
Posted

Thinking back to that time, worrying about delayed cases and what may come in January and majority of us pretty much accepting another relegation and then it just seemed to happen over night. Incredible turn of events.

 

Like some have said if I could pick and choose owners I would want some that did not have “links” with such a notorious regime. However, the sale went through and we can enjoy our club again, I’m sure many of the opposition fans wouldn’t be so outspoken if it were their club and to be fair we would probably be a bit more outspoken if another club were in our position ?

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midds

midds

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

It seems pretty cut and dry like. KSA and Qatar come to an agreement on piracy and pretty much a day later the take over goes through.

I think it was a bit of both. PL knew that they would be shown up in court and wanted to settle it before it got that far. I think they were hiding behind the piracy issue and, in my mind, have a conversation saying that if they settled the piracy dispute then they'd wave it through. PL could claim the piracy issue cleared the way for allowing it and it never actually got to court and they lobbying stays secret. 

 

I hope it all comes out eventually though. The good, the bad and the corrupt from all concerned in the deal. 

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TRon

TRon

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, ponsaelius said:

 

Good post. Wahhabism is the most destructive of ideologies and it is birthed and spread by the Saudi state. Enforcing it both in terms of ideology and laws is key to allowing the dictatorship to retain control over the populace. PIF is undisputably the direct investment arm of the state - with the dual purpose of diversifying their economy away from oil and gaining soft power globally. The idea that some kind of holistic cross-pollination of ideas through PIF's investment in global capitalism will lead to advances in KSA society is fanciful in the extreme. It is by design far more likely to tighten the regime's grip on power and further entrench the status quo.

 

It is in most NUFC fans interests to turn a blind eye to the above because lets honest the last thing any of us want to do is 'scare' away such investment in something we love. My way of rationalising it is a combination of fully appreciating the involvement of those owners directly involved in running the club (Staveley, RB, even PIF employees) - and convincing myself there is actually little we can do as individuals to stop the cold hand of investment in a global market (if it wasn't us - there's no doubt it would be somebody else).

I always wonder about this when fans come up with impressive knowledge about a virulent strain of Islam which is known as Wahabbism. It's a form of fundamentalist religion which has absolutely no future in the modern world, and despite what you say, is already creaking. That's why after centuries women are now allowed to drive in the country.

 

I don't see how SA can avoid moving with modern times no matter how reluctantly. If they really just wanted to keep their population under straitjackets, they would just allow nothing to come in from the outside at all, including football. Why would you invest in a western football club where you will be showing games attended by females and LGBTQ community?

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wormy

wormy

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, huss9 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sunak-saudi-mohammed-khashoggi-g20-b2225362.html

 

Sunak steers clear of journalist’s murder in talks with Saudi prince.

 

 

so its only nufc fans that need chastising and must head the moral crusade against the saudi regime?

 

Surely the fact its been one of the biggest focuses so far in reports of their meeting means he is being scrutinised for it?

 

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triggs

triggs

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Barnes23 said:

 Depends on if you feel it's reasonable to level claims of human rights abuses at the door of our owners specifically rather than the Saudi state itself. The framing of that statement on his part is deliberately provocative and misleading in that respect, I would say. 

"Our owners" and the Saudi state are the same thing

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Chris_R

Chris_R

Posted
Posted
On 16/11/2022 at 11:11, huss9 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sunak-saudi-mohammed-khashoggi-g20-b2225362.html

 

Sunak steers clear of journalist’s murder in talks with Saudi prince.

 

 

so its only nufc fans that need chastising and must head the moral crusade against the saudi regime?

 

It's literally the headline of the article you're quoting, and the first paragraph.

 

What more can they do when they aren't interviewing Sunak, but simply reporting on his meeting with MBS? They can't grill him about this, they weren't even speaking to him.

 

That said, there are a lot of horrific double standards in journalism over Saudi stuff regarding how we're looked at versus others, but this isn't it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Louis Gregory

Louis Gregory

Posted
Posted

Hi all, 

I'm currently doing my university dissertation on fan reactions to last year's takeover and particularly attitudes to fan protests, KSA, Qatar WC etc. and would love to hear from anyone who'd be willing to have a chat about it. If you're interested, feel free to give me a direct message. 

Cheers, Louis

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Consortium of one

Consortium of one

Posted
Posted

Looking back, one could say that the takeover was inevitable.  The vast amount of money in PIF was always going to be a weight hanging over a lot of heads.  I mean, that's the way world works unfortunately.  Money always gets what it wants; if not immediately then in the very near future.  Money beats popular opinion.  Money beats common sense.  Money beats justice and on and on.

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