Steve McClaren

[The College Dropout]

I don't think a midfield in a flat 4-4-2 is ever going to dominate possession unless they are way better than the opposition. Like a Watford now. Best they can do is protect the defence and get the ball to the front players in good positions.

[The College Dropout]

I would say we controlled most games that season but on the back foot. We where rarely over run and desperate. Most of the wins where by narrow score lines but comfortable. Even in games like Swansea away where we had little of the ball we where comfortable defending and dangerous in attack. Tiote and Cabaye besides Pellegrini Man City sides are the only 442 midfielders to succeed in the last few years.  As a two - especially defensively. They where great. Didn't dominate possession but the team wasn't intended to do so most of the time.

[mrmojorisin75]

you say that lest sentence like Pardew had a plan

[Yorkie]

That comment about the Europa is as bad as any of the shite Pardew ever came out with on the subject. Defeatest bullshit and just plain incorrect.

[Ronaldo]

I think it's become the mantra of the managerial fraternity to disparage the Europa League at every given opportunity. They all (with a few exceptions) seem to hate the format. Can't wholeheartedly blame them, if I'm honest. It's become a completely shit tournament in the past decade.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's not really the fault of individual managers or clubs that staying in the Premier League (or a Champions League place) now eclipses everything else. The structure of the game has been allowed to get out of whack.

[Interpolic]

Aye they need to do something to make the Europa League important again like. 

 

If they're really intent on the Champions League being the be-all-and-end-all then they should do something that makes the Europa League become more of a gateway to that tournament, for example cutting back the automatic league qualification positions (3 maximum in each country) and say that those teams that make the Europa League quarters get a CL 2nd last qualifying round place, semi-finalists get a place in the final qualifying round, and finalists get into the groups (the winner seeded).

 

This would be a way to mix things up and fast track good European teams to the main competition.  Spread the money around in other words.

 

And get rid of the group stuff as it's been a disaster, make it a UEFA cup-style knockout competition.  Also have the matches on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, let's not pretend many watch on Thursdays anyway.  Get it on terestrial TV when the competition has been given more value.  Both the group setup and the Thursday kick-offs that are not hyped whatsoever compared to the hype-machine of the CL has made the competition an after-thought.  It used to be a big deal, the Cup Winners Cup was a bit of a joke by the end but even that was better than this is.

 

I'd actually prefer a more extreme version of the above where there was a max of 2 qualifiers in each country and the other competition(s) were given more worth, but something like that would be a decent start.

[Hughesy]

I still think they should have a play off between 4th place in the league and the FA Cup winners to get the last Champions League place.  It would mean people would take the FA Cup more seriously, could potentially make the CL less of a closed shop and, if they insist on the whole 39th game thing, make that play off the 39th game.

[loki679]

And get rid of the group stuff as it's been a disaster, make it a UEFA cup-style knockout competition. 

 

This.  2 leg knockout all the way to the final.  Maybe have one off semis at neutral venues too.  Might not have the glamour of the CL but it would be a great competition for the fans.

[STM]

I would say we controlled most games that season but on the back foot. We where rarely over run and desperate. Most of the wins where by narrow score lines but comfortable. Even in games like Swansea away where we had little of the ball we where comfortable defending and dangerous in attack. Tiote and Cabaye besides Pellegrini Man City sides are the only 442 midfielders to succeed in the last few years.  As a two - especially defensively. They where great. Didn't dominate possession but the team wasn't intended to do so most of the time.

 

I'm sorry but you can't control a game on the back foot. If you are on the back foot, you certainly can't be in control of the game.

 

I'd argue that you can't even control the game with a defensive tactic, unless you are very good at retaining possession.

 

Pardew never had a plan, other than to stop the opposition and it rarely worked.

[Shush]

And get rid of the group stuff as it's been a disaster, make it a UEFA cup-style knockout competition. 

 

This.  2 leg knockout all the way to the final.  Maybe have one off semis at neutral venues too.  Might not have the glamour of the CL but it would be a great competition for the fans.

 

Agree with moving to knockouts like this. Also want to remove the CL dropout to this competition too. Fucking hate it that a big club can do shit at CL and get a chance in another tournament.

[loki679]

And get rid of the group stuff as it's been a disaster, make it a UEFA cup-style knockout competition. 

 

This.  2 leg knockout all the way to the final.  Maybe have one off semis at neutral venues too.  Might not have the glamour of the CL but it would be a great competition for the fans.

 

Agree with moving to knockouts like this. Also want to remove the CL dropout to this competition too. Fucking hate it that a big club can do shit at CL and get a chance in another tournament.

 

Aye, that's absurd.  Imagine getting knocked out of the FA cup and getting parachuted into the later stages of the League cup instead.  Ridiculous money motivated bollocks that cheapens and demeans the entire competition.

[The College Dropout]

I would say we controlled most games that season but on the back foot. We where rarely over run and desperate. Most of the wins where by narrow score lines but comfortable. Even in games like Swansea away where we had little of the ball we where comfortable defending and dangerous in attack. Tiote and Cabaye besides Pellegrini Man City sides are the only 442 midfielders to succeed in the last few years.  As a two - especially defensively. They where great. Didn't dominate possession but the team wasn't intended to do so most of the time.

 

I'm sorry but you can't control a game on the back foot. If you are on the back foot, you certainly can't be in control of the game.

 

I'd argue that you can't even control the game with a defensive tactic, unless you are very good at retaining possession.

 

Pardew never had a plan, other than to stop the opposition and it rarely worked.

The definition of control is the ability to define and manipulate something. That can be done with or without the ball.

 

All those times Mourinho beats Wenger. Those times SAF beat Wenger. Or when Madrid beat Bayern in the CL. Those teams controlled the game on the backfoot with much less possession. The aim of football is to score and not concede - you don't need loads of the ball to dictate that. IN games where a team has lots of possession but doesn't look like scoring and is susceptible to the counter, they're not in control. The other team is.

 

That's like saying you can't control a boxing bout on the backfoot. It's absurd.

 

As time has gone on and what he's doing at Palace, it's very clear he does have a plan. But it doesn't involve having much of the football.

[Darth Crooks]

You can't be in control out of possession man.

[The College Dropout]

So because you have the ball - the game is going to your gameplan to win?

[BrettNUFC]

You can't be in control out of possession man.

You can't be in control out of possession man.

 

How not?

[Fatwax]

"An opponent is at their most threatening when they don't have the ball".

 

Alan 'Shit For Brains' Pardew.

[mrmojorisin75]

You can't be in control out of possession man.

We've literally been here before with TCD, he'll relentlessly argue the same shit until everyone gives up or gets banned in anger. Best let him think he's right.

[BrettNUFC]

Or when Madrid beat Bayern in the CL.

 

This is a brilliant recent example where Madrid were in complete control of the match despite having very little of the ball. I'm fairly sure the possession was something like 70-30 in Bayern's favour but Madrid were always bossing the game and won 4-0.

[TRon]

I would say we controlled most games that season but on the back foot. We where rarely over run and desperate. Most of the wins where by narrow score lines but comfortable. Even in games like Swansea away where we had little of the ball we where comfortable defending and dangerous in attack. Tiote and Cabaye besides Pellegrini Man City sides are the only 442 midfielders to succeed in the last few years.  As a two - especially defensively. They where great. Didn't dominate possession but the team wasn't intended to do so most of the time.

 

I'm sorry but you can't control a game on the back foot. If you are on the back foot, you certainly can't be in control of the game.

 

I'd argue that you can't even control the game with a defensive tactic, unless you are very good at retaining possession.

 

Pardew never had a plan, other than to stop the opposition and it rarely worked.

The definition of control is the ability to define and manipulate something. That can be done with or without the ball.

 

All those times Mourinho beats Wenger. Those times SAF beat Wenger. Or when Madrid beat Bayern in the CL. Those teams controlled the game on the backfoot with much less possession. The aim of football is to score and not concede - you don't need loads of the ball to dictate that. IN games where a team has lots of possession but doesn't look like scoring and is susceptible to the counter, they're not in control. The other team is.

 

That's like saying you can't control a boxing bout on the backfoot. It's absurd.

 

As time has gone on and what he's doing at Palace, it's very clear he does have a plan. But it doesn't involve having much of the football.

 

I was agreeing with most of what you said but you had to put that in. Fuck what he's doing at Palace, those players just happened to be there when he arrived and they suit his game plan - the only game plan he's got btw. The point is, he didn't have a clue what to do with the players he had here, and he was instrumental in destroying the side which finished 5th and had real potential to go on and finish top six every season with the right additions. He was a fucking arsehole and there's every chance he degrade Palace's side as well given enough time.

[TRon]

Anyway, back to McClaren, while I loved that win against Liverpool, it might have been better for us long term if we lost. I'm pretty convinced by now that there is no way this team is going to put in 100% effort week in week out for such a wet blanket of a manager. He smiles while he takes criticism from the pundits and he probably does the same when the players tell him to go fuck himself. There's a real chance we are going down the longer he stays in charge.

[STM]

I would say we controlled most games that season but on the back foot. We where rarely over run and desperate. Most of the wins where by narrow score lines but comfortable. Even in games like Swansea away where we had little of the ball we where comfortable defending and dangerous in attack. Tiote and Cabaye besides Pellegrini Man City sides are the only 442 midfielders to succeed in the last few years.  As a two - especially defensively. They where great. Didn't dominate possession but the team wasn't intended to do so most of the time.

 

I'm sorry but you can't control a game on the back foot. If you are on the back foot, you certainly can't be in control of the game.

 

I'd argue that you can't even control the game with a defensive tactic, unless you are very good at retaining possession.

 

Pardew never had a plan, other than to stop the opposition and it rarely worked.

The definition of control is the ability to define and manipulate something. That can be done with or without the ball.

 

All those times Mourinho beats Wenger. Those times SAF beat Wenger. Or when Madrid beat Bayern in the CL. Those teams controlled the game on the backfoot with much less possession. The aim of football is to score and not concede - you don't need loads of the ball to dictate that. IN games where a team has lots of possession but doesn't look like scoring and is susceptible to the counter, they're not in control. The other team is.

 

That's like saying you can't control a boxing bout on the backfoot. It's absurd.

 

As time has gone on and what he's doing at Palace, it's very clear he does have a plan. But it doesn't involve having much of the football.

 

On the back foot means on the back foot, nowt to do with possession, it's about dominance.

 

You can't be in control unless you dominate, with or without the ball. All of those teams you mentioned win games by keeping possession and dominating the games. It's a useless arguement.

 

"Let's give the ball away and sit on our 18 yard box, that'll show me how good we are."

 

It will never take off at Newcastle United. Thank fuck.

[mrmojorisin75]

Anyway, back to McClaren, while I loved that win against Liverpool, it might have been better for us long term if we lost. I'm pretty convinced by now that there is no way this team is going to put in 100% effort week in week out for such a wet blanket of a manager. He smiles while he takes criticism from the pundits and he probably does the same when the players tell him to go fuck himself. There's a real chance we are going down the longer he stays in charge.

 

This is how I feel. Best case he staggers to safety and we're here again next season.

[STM]

Best case is that we pick up a bit of form and confidence and move up the league. Far from impossible but it requires us building on the Liverpool win, which we haven't done so far.

 

Tottenham away is about as bad as it gets at the moment.

[TRon]

There are teams who achieve some decent results by sitting back and hitting on the counter, but they do it by quick accurate passing when they win possession in their own half. They don't hoof it to a striker stationed on the wing like we did under Pardew.