WhatTheFunk Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Have people entertained the notion that maybe, just maybe, Taylor might improve next year? Better partner beside him, hopefully better midfield to protect him, a year older, better manager that'll give him some confidence. Any of these things of any interest to people? Or has he been given up on entirely? I'd agree Faye is the better player right now, but he's hardly amazing by any means and I'd say with the right coaching Taylor can easily improve to his level. Being younger it's a pretty logical move having him in front of Faye as far as I can see. top post totally agree, tbf to taylor who has he had to play along with? bramble, boumsong, rozehnal, edgar, ramage even woodgate made o'brien and bramble look good next to him Ah back to the old it's not Taylor's fault he hasn't developed it's the people who have played with him, it's all down to them. Great logic. Not wrong there tooj, but the reality of it is that he has played alongside some dross. He's still very young, and given the correct coaching, and should he buck up his ideas, with a bit of luck he still has plenty of time to develop into a top class center half Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 If Faye goes then they're fuckwits if they don't replace him with a player in the Colo mould I trust Keegan to pick out the quality players to improve us, however I don't trust the negotiating team of ours to get them in quick enough without other clubs hijacking the deal, or before the window slams shut. keegan has said there will be players coming and going, so expect 4-5 coming in and few going out theres still 17 days of the transfer window Yeah and with all the injuries we could be 9 points down if we wait until the last minute to sign them next week is the big week, we should have ppl in by then Bloody hope so I can deal with Smith, Ameobi, Milner leaving as they offer little to us maybe Milner has the odd ok performance but nothing outstanding. If we can replace those 3 with real quality plus add a left back and if Faye leaves another Centre half that would be what we'd need to push on. Come January offload Viduka and Geremi and target another couple of players and we could have a quality squad then bulk it up a bit the following summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 You don't think Taylor can improve to the level that Faye was at this past year Tooj? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 You don't think Taylor can improve to the level that Faye was at this past year Tooj? I never once said that. I just think it's a ridiculous argument saying it's not his fault he hasn't developed and it is those around him who have allowed this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 You don't think Taylor can improve to the level that Faye was at this past year Tooj? I never once said that. I just think it's a ridiculous argument saying it's not his fault he hasn't developed and it is those around him who have allowed this. players develop at different stages of their career and at different pace perfect example michael owen, after breaking through he has actually got slighty worse to when he was 18-20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 You don't think Taylor can improve to the level that Faye was at this past year Tooj? I never once said that. I just think it's a ridiculous argument saying it's not his fault he hasn't developed and it is those around him who have allowed this. players develop at different stages of their career and at different pace perfect example michael owen, after breaking through he has actually got slighty worse to when he was 18-20 Thats more down to injuries taking their toll though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 You don't think Taylor can improve to the level that Faye was at this past year Tooj? I never once said that. I just think it's a ridiculous argument saying it's not his fault he hasn't developed and it is those around him who have allowed this. players develop at different stages of their career and at different pace perfect example michael owen, after breaking through he has actually got slighty worse to when he was 18-20 But that's not Owen's development though, that's to do with his injuries. He's still got that touch of class about him, something which cannot be taught. Such as his timing of making runs into the box. I just think it's flawed to say it's those around him who have made Taylor not develop when he's played over 100 games for the first team, maybe he just isn't as good as we thought he was going to be? The biggest crime is Shola is the best player our youth system has produced for the last decade or so, that in itself says it all. Keegan has helped last time by having some canny players come through at the club such as Watson and Elliot. Hopefully this can be the case this time and we can see players like Lua-Lua eventually make that breakthrough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Have people entertained the notion that maybe, just maybe, Taylor might improve next year? Better partner beside him, hopefully better midfield to protect him, a year older, better manager that'll give him some confidence. Any of these things of any interest to people? Or has he been given up on entirely? I'd agree Faye is the better player right now, but he's hardly amazing by any means and I'd say with the right coaching Taylor can easily improve to his level. Being younger it's a pretty logical move having him in front of Faye as far as I can see. top post totally agree, tbf to taylor who has he had to play along with? bramble, boumsong, rozehnal, edgar, ramage even woodgate made o'brien and bramble look good next to him Ah back to the old it's not Taylor's fault he hasn't developed it's the people who have played with him, it's all down to them. Great logic. Where are people claiming that? Reads to me like people are looking at all kinds of factors rather than the moronic "he's s***" statement which to be honest, these other factors will have played a part in his development as a player. All I know is since KK arrived, his form has picked up, he still makes mistakes of course but f*** me, he is 22 or whatever it is, does he have to go from what he is to the England captaincy before he's 23 for people to lay off the he's s**** and will never ever be anything other than s**** stuff? I think a lot of the negativity about Taylor stems from the Geordie Hero status others mainly have created for him. Does he play up to it? Probably but so f***ing what. Shearer did, they all do, they all love it and believe it or not so do most fans. But that's not cool for the internet lot, the uber cool fans. f*** off. He's a decent Premiership player playing well under KK, wants to play for Newcastle and wants to be a hero. Don't we all... Oh and KK obviously wants the lad in his team, that's good enough for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Surprising how low supporters of other clubs have tended to rate Faye. Most of my friends seem to think he's the new Boumsong. Obviously that's bullshit, and he was one of our best defenders last season, but he's also not as good as a lot of people on here may think. All in all, he's an average Premiership defender at an age where most players start to decline. I don't think selling him is wise (especially at 2m,) but it's not necessarily devastating either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Have people entertained the notion that maybe, just maybe, Taylor might improve next year? Better partner beside him, hopefully better midfield to protect him, a year older, better manager that'll give him some confidence. Any of these things of any interest to people? Or has he been given up on entirely? I'd agree Faye is the better player right now, but he's hardly amazing by any means and I'd say with the right coaching Taylor can easily improve to his level. Being younger it's a pretty logical move having him in front of Faye as far as I can see. top post totally agree, tbf to taylor who has he had to play along with? bramble, boumsong, rozehnal, edgar, ramage even woodgate made o'brien and bramble look good next to him Ah back to the old it's not Taylor's fault he hasn't developed it's the people who have played with him, it's all down to them. Great logic. Where are people claiming that? Reads to me like people are looking at all kinds of factors rather than the moronic "he's s***" statement which to be honest, these other factors will have played a part in his development as a player. All I know is since KK arrived, his form has picked up, he still makes mistakes of course but f*** me, he is 22 or whatever it is, does he have to go from what he is to the England captaincy before he's 23 for people to lay off the he's s**** and will never ever be anything other than s**** stuff? I think a lot of the negativity about Taylor stems from the Geordie Hero status others mainly have created for him. Does he play up to it? Probably but so f***ing what. Shearer did, they all do, they all love it and believe it or not so do most fans. But that's not cool for the internet lot, the uber cool fans. f*** off. He's a decent Premiership player playing well under KK, wants to play for Newcastle and wants to be a hero. Don't we all... Oh and KK obviously wants the lad in his team, that's good enough for me. That would be people harping on about how having played with Bramble etc hasn't helped him at all blah blah blah. That doesn't wash with me I'm afraid, he's now played over 100 games for the first time and hasn't developed since then. That is what's worrying, and it is unfair to label this on the players around him, as the player has to look at himself as well. Bramble had more talent than Taylor IMO, obviously he was just thick as mince and has no footballing brain at all, which as a defender makes you useless. Course he played better under Keegan, mainly due to the fact the defence wasn't under as much pressure, same will happen this season as well, and he will have his best season yet as a professional. I don't think that is in doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Although btw being more talented than someone doesn't make you a better player, it's applying everything that you've got as best you can that does that. Bryan Robson wasn't as talented as Glenn Hoddle but he was certainly the better player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 i'm completely bemused by all of this, until collocini signs he's our best centre half ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Faye is nowt really special but he is one of our better defenders, there is not much difference between him & Taylor. Once Steven got his new contract, Bassong was brought in, Colo singed (?!?!) & for a strange reason Cacapa didn't get his contract canceled it was always looking like Faye was a gonna. Also Nicky Butt being a KK fave meant midfield was out of the question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Faye is in a different class compared to Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 but, stoke? eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 It wouldn't surprise me if he's being sold because he got on the wrong side of Keegan. Not many players survive that. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me. No question he was our best defender last year and really held us together. It still seems a bit strange that he's training with Stoke when he hasn't yet signed. You wouldn't have thought that a player of his Premiership experience would need a 'trial', especially with Stoke. The worrying thing about Taylor is that he doesn't seem to be progressing as he should. Last year, I was expecting him to grow in confidence and start to be more dominating. Instead, he seemed to be avoiding responsibility a lot of the time. He can improve, but only up to a point. He's clumsy on the ball, even by centre back standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Can't wait for Ronaldo to see this news btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Faye is in a different class compared to Taylor He is marginally better than him tbh, which considering he is at / past his peak makes me not bothered about him going (so long as we sign another centre half). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Have people entertained the notion that maybe, just maybe, Taylor might improve next year? Better partner beside him, hopefully better midfield to protect him, a year older, better manager that'll give him some confidence. Any of these things of any interest to people? Or has he been given up on entirely? I'd agree Faye is the better player right now, but he's hardly amazing by any means and I'd say with the right coaching Taylor can easily improve to his level. Being younger it's a pretty logical move having him in front of Faye as far as I can see. top post totally agree, tbf to taylor who has he had to play along with? bramble, boumsong, rozehnal, edgar, ramage even woodgate made o'brien and bramble look good next to him Ah back to the old it's not Taylor's fault he hasn't developed it's the people who have played with him, it's all down to them. Great logic. Where are people claiming that? Reads to me like people are looking at all kinds of factors rather than the moronic "he's s***" statement which to be honest, these other factors will have played a part in his development as a player. All I know is since KK arrived, his form has picked up, he still makes mistakes of course but f*** me, he is 22 or whatever it is, does he have to go from what he is to the England captaincy before he's 23 for people to lay off the he's s**** and will never ever be anything other than s**** stuff? I think a lot of the negativity about Taylor stems from the Geordie Hero status others mainly have created for him. Does he play up to it? Probably but so f***ing what. Shearer did, they all do, they all love it and believe it or not so do most fans. But that's not cool for the internet lot, the uber cool fans. f*** off. He's a decent Premiership player playing well under KK, wants to play for Newcastle and wants to be a hero. Don't we all... Oh and KK obviously wants the lad in his team, that's good enough for me. That would be people harping on about how having played with Bramble etc hasn't helped him at all blah blah blah. That doesn't wash with me I'm afraid, he's now played over 100 games for the first time and hasn't developed since then. That is what's worrying, and it is unfair to label this on the players around him, as the player has to look at himself as well. Bramble had more talent than Taylor IMO, obviously he was just thick as mince and has no footballing brain at all, which as a defender makes you useless. Course he played better under Keegan, mainly due to the fact the defence wasn't under as much pressure, same will happen this season as well, and he will have his best season yet as a professional. I don't think that is in doubt. It probably didn't help him though (and indeed Bramble). When introducing young players into a team its best to do so in favourable conditions because of the potential harm that can be done in terms of development. Very few young players can come into any team at any point and perform majestically, especially defenders. That's what level of expectation is placed on the shoulders of any young player at Newcastle by fans and the same applies with new signings too. They have to perform from the get go otherwise they get tarred with the s**** and likely to always be s*** tag. Conversely if the do come in and play well, especially in a s**** team, like Taylor initially did, they get tarred with the future great, England captain one day tag. In between making his breakthrough and to the point he is at today, Taylor hasn't progressed at all, meanwhile the side hasn't either. The latter is a factor in the lack of progress from Taylor like it or not while the stick he gets (I must say at the match he doesn't get much if any at all, it all seems internet based stick...) is directly tied in with the lack of progress from the team. Fans see Taylor as part of that and a reason for it, along with many others like crap manager, poor signings etc. But some people aren't allowed to flip that and say well hold on, maybe that is part of and a reason why Taylor hasn't progressed? Is it a coincidence that his form picked up under KK when the team's form did? Of course not. Therefore playing in a poor side in a bad run has obviously impacted his development in a negative way, like playing in a good side on a good run of form has had a positive effect. Anyway for me its a fresh start for all this season. I'm sick and tired of having my grudges against those who wear our badge, I'm sick of nit picking, I'm sick of having something to whinge about. Rather than go with the Taylor isn't class and therefore will need replaced line or is a weakness in our side I'm going to go with Taylor's form is on the up, he's decent enough, lets see what he can do and what the team can do line. I mean if I wanted to be cynical and picky I could say none of them are good enough and what is the whole point, we are not going to finish top, win anything or go from being s*** to England captain... /Northern Monkey voice on F*** that though. I'm determined to have a great season, to enjoy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duwy Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I think Faye is an average defender at best, Taylor is better, and it's clear after pre season that he will be a first choice CB. If Bassong is as good as Keegan seems to think, then selling Faye isn't a big loss IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Faye held us together? I'd say at the back Harper and Beye did in terms of performances and in Beye, commitment and leadership. Held us together being a stretch like... we shipped in tons of goals and were generally a complete mess back there, and in midfield and up top until KK switched things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Faye held us together? I'd say at the back Harper and Beye did in terms of performances and in Beye, commitment and leadership. Held us together being a stretch like... we shipped in tons of goals and were generally a complete mess back there, and in midfield and up top until KK switched things. Beye should be captain btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I love how some on here put a player down when we look to sell them, is that just to lessen the blow of them being sold? he went from being our best CB to over rated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Faye held us together? I'd say at the back Harper and Beye did in terms of performances and in Beye, commitment and leadership. Held us together being a stretch like... we shipped in tons of goals and were generally a complete mess back there, and in midfield and up top until KK switched things. Beye should be captain btw. Good shout, he for me is a star and not just in terms of ability either. One of the very few bright spots of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I love how some on here put a player down when we look to sell them, is that just to lessen the blow of them being sold? he went from being our best CB to over rated For years Carr was our best RB... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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