Beren Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Selling Carroll was the very definition of cashing in. As it happens that has been a massive 'success' for us given the ludicrous fee and the fact he's been gash for what is now our closest competitor. Enrique clearly wanted to go once it became obvious we weren't willing to pay what he wanted and he'd had his head turned by the same club. Whilst I wasn't happy at the time about Nolan and Barton being allowed to leave, it was much easier to replace aging midfielders for whom the only way was down. I continue to worry that the club will see the Carroll deal as proof that we can easily replace other top players in their prime like Tiote and Ba, and the Enrique deal as proof that we can cope even without proper replacements. Agree with the above, and would add in the centre-back situation to the 'proper replacements' line. How we've coped with just two recognised centre-backs for nearly half a season is spectacularly fortunate IMO. Another gamble that has paid off (fiscally speaking, in that there was no further outlay in January) but that does not justify it as a good bet, or good decision-making at the top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Where do you draw the line between selling for profit and a ridiculous deal, for example with Tiote, or Ba? about 25mill for tiote and i don't think we have the choice for ba if the clause stories are true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Where do you draw the line between selling for profit and a ridiculous deal, for example with Tiote, or Ba? about 25mill for tiote and i don't think we have the choice for ba if the clause stories are true. So if Chelsea offered say £15m for Tiote and we accepted it, you'd criticise the club? Come off it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Where do you draw the line between selling for profit and a ridiculous deal, for example with Tiote, or Ba? about 25mill for tiote and i don't think we have the choice for ba if the clause stories are true. So if Chelsea offered say £15m for Tiote and we accepted it, you'd criticise the club? Come off it. i'd say we sold him cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Where do you draw the line between selling for profit and a ridiculous deal, for example with Tiote, or Ba? about 25mill for tiote and i don't think we have the choice for ba if the clause stories are true. So if Chelsea offered say £15m for Tiote and we accepted it, you'd criticise the club? Come off it. i'd say we sold him cheap. same really don't think we'd accept that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 He looked absolutely shagged after about 65 minutes like. Had we not needed to replace Coloccini and Cisse I like to think he'd have come off, he's played so many 90 minute games lately. He needs a rest at some point. I agree. Like Shola, only not to the same degree, there's an issue with his stamina. We shouldn't be expecting to get 90 minutes out of him. We should be like. If he has a problem with stamina he needs to work hard on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Where do you draw the line between selling for profit and a ridiculous deal, for example with Tiote, or Ba? about 25mill for tiote and i don't think we have the choice for ba if the clause stories are true. So if Chelsea offered say £15m for Tiote and we accepted it, you'd criticise the club? Come off it. i'd say we sold him cheap. same really don't think we'd accept that Yh over the 5-6 years his contract is probably not worth that 25M or GTFO ! is my motto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I see Ba as a different case to most players because of his circumstances. He started playing football quite late (about 20 I think) and knows that his career could be ended at any time. If a club came in offering him a long contract on huge wages, I would understand if he wanted to move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I see Ba as a different case to most players because of his circumstances. He started playing football quite late (about 20 I think) and knows that his career could be ended at any time. If a club came in offering him a long contract on huge wages, I would understand if he wanted to move. Eh? He was in Watford's youth team for a year as an 18 year old. Don't think he started particularly late. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Ultimately I don't blame any player for taking a big money move, I would do the same if my career was short and could end any time. My only problem is when they pretend they're doing it for football reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I see Ba as a different case to most players because of his circumstances. He started playing football quite late (about 20 I think) and knows that his career could be ended at any time. If a club came in offering him a long contract on huge wages, I would understand if he wanted to move. Eh? He was in Watford's youth team for a year as an 18 year old. Don't think he started particularly late. Well he has said himself that he started late for a professional footballer but I don't know how he qualifies that - first pro contract, first team squad? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 He looked absolutely shagged after about 65 minutes like. Had we not needed to replace Coloccini and Cisse I like to think he'd have come off, he's played so many 90 minute games lately. He needs a rest at some point. I agree. Like Shola, only not to the same degree, there's an issue with his stamina. We shouldn't be expecting to get 90 minutes out of him. We should be like. If he has a problem with stamina he needs to work hard on it. As with Shola, I think the problem is related to that tall, heavily-muscled physique of his. He can improve, but he's just not built for endurance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Could do with a goal, not many in 2012, not for all the hype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Could do with a goal, not many in 2012, not for all the hype. Not many since ACN is more like it. I hate that tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Could do with a goal, not many in 2012, not for all the hype. i'm on board with the idea of him going the rest of the season in a supporting role with hba and cisse battering them in, let interest in him cool down somewhat prior to the summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Selling Carroll was the very definition of cashing in. As it happens that has been a massive 'success' for us given the ludicrous fee and the fact he's been gash for what is now our closest competitor. Enrique clearly wanted to go once it became obvious we weren't willing to pay what he wanted and he'd had his head turned by the same club. Whilst I wasn't happy at the time about Nolan and Barton being allowed to leave, it was clearly much easier to replace aging midfielders for whom the only way was down. I continue to worry that the club will see the Carroll deal as proof that we can easily replace other top players in their prime like Tiote and Ba, and the Enrique deal as proof that we can cope even without proper replacements. Though there seems to be a never ending debate of Santon's real position, why don't you see him as the replacement for Enrique? In fact we made almost no profit from the sell Enrique buy Santon deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Selling Carroll was the very definition of cashing in. As it happens that has been a massive 'success' for us given the ludicrous fee and the fact he's been gash for what is now our closest competitor. Enrique clearly wanted to go once it became obvious we weren't willing to pay what he wanted and he'd had his head turned by the same club. Whilst I wasn't happy at the time about Nolan and Barton being allowed to leave, it was clearly much easier to replace aging midfielders for whom the only way was down. I continue to worry that the club will see the Carroll deal as proof that we can easily replace other top players in their prime like Tiote and Ba, and the Enrique deal as proof that we can cope even without proper replacements. Though there seems to be a never ending debate of Santon's real position, why don't you see him as the replacement for Enrique? In fact we made almost no profit from the sell Enrique buy Santon deal. Pardew has said privately and publically (I think, although he may have contradicted this) that Santon was bought to play RB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I really think that we could persuade some of our stars to stay if we got two or three more quality players in early this summer. We are only two full backs and a centre half away from being a very strong team! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Re Santon, I thought he was the dog's nads at the start but I really do think he gets caught out of position far too much and flatters to deceive as this attacking full back that a few on here harp on about. He's only young so we can teach him when and when not to take a risk going forward... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I really think that we could persuade some of our stars to stay if we got two or three more quality players in early this summer. We are only two full backs and a centre half away from being a very strong team! We are only 2 FBs & 1 CB from being a very strong team....But still a relatively weak squad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I really think that we could persuade some of our stars to stay if we got two or three more quality players in early this summer. We are only two full backs and a centre half away from being a very strong team! We are only 2 FBs & 1 CB from being a very strong team....But still a relatively weak squad! Talking to yourself lad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThievingMagpie Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Pessimist in me says he won't keep him. If that clause is true he is out the door unless we pay him £80k p/w which is something I'd rather we not do anymore unless they have really earned it and I say he has not. He has fallen off a bit scoring wise but he still is keeping himself involved, I think he might stay if we don't make the Europa League he probably will stay if we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniatmoko Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 80k for a player like Ba is worth... u wont find a striker as skillful as him with that wage. He is a type of striker that play behind a poacher (lurker type) ala del piero or totti & wont be top score on league... but run ragged opponent defense line up with blistering skills to setup the poacher more goal scoring opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Some of the suggestions in the media that we'll supplement the salary with a signing on fee make sense - give him 5 million signing and 50k a week and he's effectively on over 90k a week over a 5 year deal, and we're no worse on than if he goes for the 7m release clause and we have a sign an equivalent replacement for 12m + 50k a week. Only concern then is that knee of his.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Under-rated now the goals have dried up. Very good despite it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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