Parky Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Could prove to be a false economy. There was a real chance with this window to continue to build momentum, which in turn improves everything from the financial side to the brand and general well being of the club and players. I won't lie I fully expected defensive/attacking reinforcements of a good quality this window. It's by no means a crisis but a missed opp imho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppaz Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 We lacked ambition this summer mind. We must have money but continue to go about things on our terms and our terms only. We need a bit of cover to play all the games we need to this season and Mike is looking to gamble till January, hoping the players in adversity will perform. I hope they do but with everything in perspective that is all I have as other teams have strengthened greatly in reality. Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ultimately these convos just show which of us places more trust in the board/system we've set up allowing our recent success. Think some of us just trust that ultimately the choices theyre making are for the greater good, our recent success & how we've achieved that backs this idea up. All of us wanted more players, some of us are just more open to the idea that there are reasonable reasons behind why it hasnt happened. Obviously if you dont have that, then you still suspect that theyre purposely showing no ambition, wont adapt their ideas regardless of its benefit to our league status & you're going to be unhappy. Only thing we can do is see what happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think an important point to note is that the more active clubs (Chelsea, City and QPR aside) such as Swansea, Spurs, Fulham, Liverpool and Everton have either benefitted financially from selling one of their better players (Dembele, Modric, Rodwell) and have been able to use those extra funds to buy more players, or have changed manager fairly recently. Under a new manager who is wanting to implement a new style of play such as AVB or Laudrup, I'd guess that chairmen and board members are more likely to make money available to let their man put his stamp on the side. I am disappointed with this window fwiw. I think Anita is a good addition to the squad but we are looking very short up front and I'm annoyed that the whole Debuchy saga was allowed to drag on the way it did without any meaningful conclusion. However, I look at the likes of Spurs and Liverpool with their significant player turnovers and, for this season at least, wonder if keeping a consistent squad together might work in our favour while our rivals experience short term transitional periods. I may very well be clutching at straws here, but the benefits gained by our rivals from an influx of new players might well be offset somewhat by new managers and the sheer number of new players in key positions. Spurs, for instance, have a brand new midfield near enough and it will inevitably take time to click. In this regard, arguably January and next summer will be more significant windows for us in terms of keeping up with the teams around us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ultimately these convos just show which of us places more trust in the board/system we've set up allowing our recent success. Think some of us just trust that ultimately the choices theyre making are for the greater good, our recent success & how we've achieved that backs this idea up. All of us wanted more players, some of us are just more open to the idea that there are reasonable reasons behind why it hasnt happened. Obviously if you dont have that, then you still suspect that theyre purposely showing no ambition, wont adapt their ideas regardless of its benefit to our league status & you're going to be unhappy. Only thing we can do is see what happens. end of thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ultimately what good has finishing 5th last season done us? Considering the manager has already been totally open about the actual competition we qualified for being far from our top priority, was there any benefit over finishing say 8th? The prize money difference isn't massive, and none of our players were desperate to get away beforehand. We didn't need to finish 5th before last season started. The one big benefit is supposed to be that you can convince players new and old that you're close to and capable of doing something. Finishing top four, getting into the competition everyone really cares about. Building the club and trying to do it again. Trying to win something. Finishing higher up the league and getting into Europe gives you that extra exposure. Pardew has repeatedly stated that this is his aim. We took advantage of poor seasons from Chelsea and Liverpool to finish above them, something nobody expected. And with the extra exposure and that unexpected advantage we've done nothing. We've just admitted to the world that it was a one-off, a flash in the pan. Finishing so high in the Premier League hasn't benefitted us in the slightest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ultimately what good has finishing 5th last season done us? Considering the manager has already been totally open about the actual competition we qualified for being far from our top priority, was there any benefit over finishing say 8th? The prize money difference isn't massive, and none of our players were desperate to get away beforehand. We didn't need to finish 5th before last season started. The one big benefit is supposed to be that you can convince players new and old that you're close to and capable of doing something. Finishing top four, getting into the competition everyone really cares about. Building the club and trying to do it again. Trying to win something. Finishing higher up the league and getting into Europe gives you that extra exposure. Pardew has repeatedly stated that this is his aim. We took advantage of poor seasons from Chelsea and Liverpool to finish above them, something nobody expected. And with the extra exposure and that unexpected advantage we've done nothing. We've just admitted to the world that it was a one-off, a flash in the pan. Finishing so high in the Premier League hasn't benefitted us in the slightest. I agree to some extent, but ultimately the goal is to finish up as high as possible, and 5th is therefore better than 8th. Last season was a great achievement. Obviously our lack of movement is very much against that goal, but the prize at the end of it all, is league positions & cups, and we achieved our best league position since proper ages ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Class post, Dave. Although, if we pull off one or two Cisse-level signings in the January window, I'd obviously come back and disagree. Not sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 We're the 3rd best supported club in the richest league in the world, we've just finished 5th and we haven't got a pot to piss in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Spot on Dave. We're going into this season with the same predicament at centre half as last season and the same situation at striker in terms of lacking bodies. I find that truly baffling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 We're the 3rd best supported club in the richest league in the world, we've just finished 5th and we haven't got a pot to piss in. We have the third biggest stadium. We are not the 3rd "best supported" club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ultimately what good has finishing 5th last season done us? Considering the manager has already been totally open about the actual competition we qualified for being far from our top priority, was there any benefit over finishing say 8th? The prize money difference isn't massive, and none of our players were desperate to get away beforehand. We didn't need to finish 5th before last season started. The one big benefit is supposed to be that you can convince players new and old that you're close to and capable of doing something. Finishing top four, getting into the competition everyone really cares about. Building the club and trying to do it again. Trying to win something. Finishing higher up the league and getting into Europe gives you that extra exposure. Pardew has repeatedly stated that this is his aim. We took advantage of poor seasons from Chelsea and Liverpool to finish above them, something nobody expected. And with the extra exposure and that unexpected advantage we've done nothing. We've just admitted to the world that it was a one-off, a flash in the pan. Finishing so high in the Premier League hasn't benefitted us in the slightest. I agree to some extent, but ultimately the goal is to finish up as high as possible, and 5th is therefore better than 8th. Last season was a great achievement. Obviously our lack of movement is very much against that goal, but the prize and the end of it all, is league positions & cups, and we achieved our best league position since proper ages ago. Exactly, if you're going to ask questions like "why bother finishing 5th" you may as well admit that football is basically pointless. There are many achievements in football beyond getting into the Champions League. We did extremely well last season and had a great time, to dismiss that because of a poor transfer window is idiotic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 We have the third biggest stadium. We are not the 3rd "best supported" club. We are as far as getting people through the gates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's all very well to say we want to finish in the top 4, but realistically there is only one place to fight for. We can't compete with Chelsea, or the two Manchester clubs. That's not to say we shouldn't have pushed the boat out and made a couple more signings - we definitely should have. But the CL argument is bit of a straw man one. We could spend plenty and still not finish ahead of Arsenal, Liverpool or Tottenham. What we should have done is spent sensibly and got the players in to compete with those clubs, whether we finished 4th or 7th is beside the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's all very well to say we want to finish in the top 4, but realistically there is only one place to fight for. We can't compete with Chelsea, or the two Manchester clubs. That's not to say we shouldn't have pushed the boat out and made a couple more signings - we definitely should have. But the CL argument is bit of a straw man one. We could spend plenty and still not finish ahead of Arsenal, Liverpool or Tottenham. What we should have done is spent sensibly and got the players in to compete with those clubs, whether we finished 4th or 7th is beside the point. Has anybody suggested that we shouldn't spend sensibly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ultimately what good has finishing 5th last season done us? Considering the manager has already been totally open about the actual competition we qualified for being far from our top priority, was there any benefit over finishing say 8th? The prize money difference isn't massive, and none of our players were desperate to get away beforehand. We didn't need to finish 5th before last season started. The one big benefit is supposed to be that you can convince players new and old that you're close to and capable of doing something. Finishing top four, getting into the competition everyone really cares about. Building the club and trying to do it again. Trying to win something. Finishing higher up the league and getting into Europe gives you that extra exposure. Pardew has repeatedly stated that this is his aim. We took advantage of poor seasons from Chelsea and Liverpool to finish above them, something nobody expected. And with the extra exposure and that unexpected advantage we've done nothing. We've just admitted to the world that it was a one-off, a flash in the pan. Finishing so high in the Premier League hasn't benefitted us in the slightest. I agree to some extent, but ultimately the goal is to finish up as high as possible, and 5th is therefore better than 8th. Last season was a great achievement. Obviously our lack of movement is very much against that goal, but the prize and the end of it all, is league positions & cups, and we achieved our best league position since proper ages ago. Exactly, if you're going to ask questions like "why bother finishing 5th" you may as well admit that football is basically pointless. There are many achievements in football beyond getting into the Champions League. We did extremely well last season and had a great time, to dismiss that because of a poor transfer window is idiotic. Absolutely. Why bother finishing 5th? Fkn hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 We have the third biggest stadium. We are not the 3rd "best supported" club. We are as far as getting people through the gates. As delightful as that is, it's not really relevant to how much success we "should" have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Disappointing we didn't get at least Debuchy and back up striker, but on the plus side, he's still a Lille player so nothing to stop us going back in for him in January. If we really think we can get a good deal for him, I'd sooner do that when it's obviously the player we want, than a back up option like Cissokho or Pieters. For the sake of 4 months I'd be happy to wait on that one. Simpson's not perfect but he'll do and is nowhere near as bad as made out. As for the lack of striker, all that does is make this much wanked over 4-3-3 formation more likely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I don't buy this "we can't compete with the top" loser attitude, it annoys the fuck out of me. Yes, we cant compete with them when it comes to spending as much money as possible. But if we had ambition and signed, say 3 quality players and had some luck with injuries and some results with us (other top teams losing silly points) then we "could" be up there and pinch that 3/4th spot that eventually could land us CL and a great platform to progress from even further. What's the meaning of it all if the aim isn't to get better and better and at least try to become as good as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Disappointing we didn't get at least Debuchy and back up striker, but on the plus side, he's still a Lille player so nothing to stop us going back in for him in January. If we really think we can get a good deal for him, I'd sooner do that when it's obviously the player we want, than a back up option like Cissokho or Pieters. For the sake of 4 months I'd be happy to wait on that one. Simpson's not perfect but he'll do and is nowhere near as bad as made out. As for the lack of striker, all that does is make this much wanked over 4-3-3 formation more likely. Fitting username. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Finishing 5th is pointless if you do very little to stop yourself finishing lower the next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Could be worse, could (and perhaps should) be better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 As delightful as that is, it's not really relevant to how much success we "should" have. Who said it was relevant to success? You would think that the 3rd best supported club would be able to spend a bit more when needed than clubs like West Ham, Southampton and QPR, obviously we can't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Had bit of time to reflect now. If we don't lose anybody then this window hasn't been tragic, but I would say we have to recruit in January. If other teams are spending now and we're not so be it but if we do nothing in January then that would be unforgivable and could mean losing star players in the summer as a consequence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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