Kimbo Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 16 minutes ago, Mike said: You fucking twats. Who do I kill. Given Southgate’s luck, I suggest not trying to kill him if you want to stay alive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 5 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said: Hardly edgy 😁 I guess I’m just trying to understand why I don’t feel anything for them. Like, I know I should, because I’m English and I love football, but it’s been weird. I’ve watched pretty much every single game of this Euros, and I’ve found myself being far more intensely involved in other games (for example Georgia’s run, and Turkey) than England. I’m struggling to compute why the emotion just isn’t hitting me with them. The Watkin’s goal last night was brilliant… an outstanding finish… but I hardly flinched when it went in. Tell me why I don’t feel anything, because I don’t understand 😁 I'm not much different tbh. I'm a bit sad about it; I was quite emotional after we beat Denmark in the last semis and felt very much like a fan. I was gutted when Italy beat us, too. But I felt next to nothing against Switzerland and last night, while I enjoyed it, I didn't truly feel it. The circumstances are very different, I guess. Euro 2020 was during COVID and the whole tournament was seemingly giving everyone a massive lift, and there was still a sense of surprise that we did so well. Meanwhile, Newcastle didn't exist and I was desperate to find any team to cling to. Now: the expectations are different; we're three international tournaments in four years; the sense of England games being national events is a bit desensitised with sheer amount of football on; the novelty of being a team that - for instance - can win penalty shootouts - has gone; and we've not been an inspiring team to watch 95% of the time. I'm looking forward to Sunday and expect to feel pretty up for it cos it's a huge deal, but thus far I've felt somewhat neutral. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) This insistence that we've never beaten anyone good is another one that, along with the insistence that this is the best generation of individual talent ever, seems to ignore our history at such a basic level. So we: Beat Colombia in 2018 - Won their group, quarter finalists 4 years earlier, doesn't matter it's only Colombia Beat Germany - 2nd most successful international team of all time, often win and reach finals while playing not particularly well (such as in '82, '02, 08), a team filled with Champions League winners - doesn't matter it's the worst Germany team of all time Beat Senegal 3-0 - AFCON winners, doesn't matter, it's only Senegal Denmark - Completely galvanised by Eriksen's heart failure they gave World Champions France a game, thrashed Russia and Wales, then beat the Netherlands 2-0 - doesn't matter, it's only Denmark. Netherlands - drew with France, had a couple of barnstormers against Austria and Turkey, previous winners and perenial finalists and semi-finalists - doesn't matter, they're 'hardly one of the world's elite teams' apparently. Meanwhile, before Southgate took over: Half the team he got to a World Cup semi final had started (and lost remember) against Iceland Our previous 2 tournament outcomes were: getting knocked out by Iceland and finishing bottom of our group in World Cup 2014 Then more widely, we hadn't reached a semi in 22 years or a final in 55 years Regularly lost, drew or made an absolute chore out of winning against poor teams Had a poor penalty shootout record and here (thanks to ChatGPT) are the teams we've won, lost and drawn against since last winning a tournament. 1970 World Cup (Mexico) Win: Romania, Czechoslovakia Draw: Brazil Loss: West Germany 1972 European Championship (Belgium) Loss: West Germany (qualifiers) 1974 World Cup (West Germany) Loss: Poland (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1976 European Championship (Yugoslavia) Loss: Czechoslovakia (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1978 World Cup (Argentina) Loss: Italy (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1980 European Championship (Italy) Win: Spain Draw: Belgium Loss: Italy 1982 World Cup (Spain) Win: France, Czechoslovakia, Kuwait Draw: West Germany, Spain 1984 European Championship (France) Loss: Denmark (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1986 World Cup (Mexico) Win: Poland, Paraguay Draw: Morocco Loss: Portugal, Argentina 1988 European Championship (West Germany) Loss: Ireland, Netherlands, USSR 1990 World Cup (Italy) Win: Egypt, Belgium, Cameroon Draw: Ireland, Netherlands Loss: West Germany, Italy (third place match) 1992 European Championship (Sweden) Draw: Denmark, France Loss: Sweden 1994 World Cup (USA) Loss: Norway, Netherlands (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1996 European Championship (England) Win: Scotland, Netherlands, Spain Draw: Switzerland Loss: Germany 1998 World Cup (France) Win: Tunisia, Colombia Loss: Romania, Argentina 2000 European Championship (Belgium/Netherlands) Win: Germany Loss: Portugal, Romania 2002 World Cup (South Korea/Japan) Win: Argentina, Denmark Draw: Sweden, Nigeria Loss: Brazil 2004 European Championship (Portugal) Win: Croatia, Switzerland Loss: France, Portugal 2006 World Cup (Germany) Win: Paraguay, Trinidad and Tobago, Ecuador Draw: Sweden, Portugal Loss: Portugal 2008 European Championship (Austria/Switzerland) Loss: Croatia (twice), Russia (qualifiers) Did not qualify 2010 World Cup (South Africa) Win: Slovenia Draw: USA, Algeria Loss: Germany 2012 European Championship (Poland/Ukraine) Win: Sweden, Ukraine Draw: France, Italy Loss: Italy 2014 World Cup (Brazil) Loss: Italy, Uruguay Draw: Costa Rica 2016 European Championship (France) Win: Wales Draw: Russia, Slovakia Loss: Iceland Edited July 11 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Bizza said: Why are you watching if you don't care? Bit of a daft question, surely people watch games of football that they have no emotional investment in all the time? I completely understand his sentiments. I am "happy" England are winning, but it's more just out of a sense of duty than an actual emotional connection. I'd compare watching this England team to the way I would watch someone like Leicester when they won the league. Happy to see them do well, but if they get beat it doesn't really phase me, and I don't exactly gan mad when they score either. Not sure when it changed for me, but I've found international football more of a neutral event than anything else for as long as I can remember. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said: Hardly edgy 😁 I guess I’m just trying to understand why I don’t feel anything for them. Like, I know I should, because I’m English and I love football, but it’s been weird. I’ve watched pretty much every single game of this Euros, and I’ve found myself being far more intensely involved in other games (for example Georgia’s run, and Turkey) than England. I’m struggling to compute why the emotion just isn’t hitting me with them. The Watkin’s goal last night was brilliant… an outstanding finish… but I hardly flinched when it went in. Tell me why I don’t feel anything, because I don’t understand 😁 100% how I feel as well. Not trying to be edgy by telling everyone how not arsed I am. It's just the way I feel. I think I used to be arsed as a kid. Kinda remember nearly being in tears when Ronaldinho lobbed seaman in 02. But from being a teenager I just didn't give a fuck. Newcastle and only Newcastle when it comes to football can bring out my true emotion Add in supporting players of other clubs I dislike for 9 months of the year it would just be false of me to jump up and celebrate them Edited July 11 by jack j Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Puppets Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 11 minutes ago, Andy said: Bit of a daft question, surely people watch games of football that they have no emotional investment in all the time? I completely understand his sentiments. I am "happy" England are winning, but it's more just out of a sense of duty than an actual emotional connection. I'd compare watching this England team to the way I would watch someone like Leicester when they won the league. Happy to see them do well, but if they get beat it doesn't really phase me, and I don't exactly gan mad when they score either. Not sure when it changed for me, but I've found international football more of a neutral event than anything else for as long as I can remember. Bang on 👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 50 minutes ago, Yorkie said: I'm not much different tbh. I'm a bit sad about it; I was quite emotional after we beat Denmark in the last semis and felt very much like a fan. I was gutted when Italy beat us, too. But I felt next to nothing against Switzerland and last night, while I enjoyed it, I didn't truly feel it. The circumstances are very different, I guess. Euro 2020 was during COVID and the whole tournament was seemingly giving everyone a massive lift, and there was still a sense of surprise that we did so well. Meanwhile, Newcastle didn't exist and I was desperate to find any team to cling to. Now: the expectations are different; we're three international tournaments in four years; the sense of England games being national events is a bit desensitised with sheer amount of football on; the novelty of being a team that - for instance - can win penalty shootouts - has gone; and we've not been an inspiring team to watch 95% of the time. I'm looking forward to Sunday and expect to feel pretty up for it cos it's a huge deal, but thus far I've felt somewhat neutral. This is exactly it imo. I keep blethering on about us being England expects England and not Underdog England anymore, but I think it's really true. Our relative success under Southgate has been so undermined and taken for granted post-2018 that to many it's seen as an underachievement in itself. This tournament is the first time where I think it's absolutely true that we have a really talented group of players and absolutely true that (until the last two matches) the football that's been served up has been below the level it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geogaddi Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, jack j said: 100% how I feel as well. Not trying to be edgy by telling everyone how not arsed I am. It's just the way I feel. I think I used to be arsed as a kid. Kinda remember nearly being in tears when Ronaldinho lobbed seaman in 02. But from being a teenager I just didn't give a fuck. Newcastle and only Newcastle when it comes to football can bring out my true emotion Add in supporting players of other clubs I dislike for 9 months of the year it would just be false of me to jump up and celebrate them I agree with all of this , except I went from not being arsed to actively disliking England purely because of the way the media and fans go on. So arrogant considering how little they have achieved . Even the stick they give Southgate when he's the second most successful England manager ever just shows the mentality they have . I also will never understand how anyone can give Pickford dogs abuse when he comes here for a match but then worship and celebrate him when he's saving penalties for England. Edited July 11 by Geogaddi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I put a holiday in on our sage syste for Monday last night as soon as we scored the second goal, in the comments section I wrote "it's coming home" My boss denied it and wrote "not for you it's not" in the comments. He approved it this morning with a daft smile on his face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I actually couldn't stand watching England actually wanted them to lose at times from Euro 2012-2016. Genuinely couldn't have gave a fuck. It all changed for me in World Cup 2018. No idea how or why, but my childlike love for England was back and has been the same in 20 (21), 22 & this tournament too. I remember being in Malia with the lads in 2010 and being fuming with the Lampard/Germany incident, so I think that must have been when it stooped. I've been absolutely buzzing every tournament since Southgate came in. I think it helps that you can sit with your mates in the sun and watch England so it's something to get behind really, granted not much sun this year! Totally get why people aren't arsed though, some of my mates are the same. Also, to be totally clear - I'd take Newcastle winning absolutely anything over England winning the lot. But I find this squad mostly quite likeable compared to previous squads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Maximin Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 5 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: This insistence that we've never beaten anyone good is another one that, along with the insistence that this is the best generation of individual talent ever, seems to ignore our history at such a basic level. So we: Beat Colombia in 2018 - Won their group, quarter finalists 4 years earlier, doesn't matter it's only Colombia Beat Germany - 2nd most successful international team of all time, often win and reach finals while playing not particularly well (such as in '82, '02, 08), a team filled with Champions League winners - doesn't matter it's the worst Germany team of all time Beat Senegal 3-0 - AFCON winners, doesn't matter, it's only Senegal Denmark - Completely galvanised by Eriksen's heart failure they gave World Champions France a game, thrashed Russia and Wales, then beat the Netherlands 2-0 - doesn't matter, it's only Denmark. Netherlands - drew with France, had a couple of barnstormers against Austria and Turkey, previous winners and perenial finalists and semi-finalists - doesn't matter, they're 'hardly one of the world's elite teams' apparently. Meanwhile, before Southgate took over: Half the team he got to a World Cup semi final had started (and lost remember) against Iceland Our previous 2 tournament outcomes were: getting knocked out by Iceland and finishing bottom of our group in World Cup 2014 Then more widely, we hadn't reached a semi in 22 years or a final in 55 years Regularly lost, drew or made an absolute chore out of winning against poor teams Had a poor penalty shootout record and here (thanks to ChatGPT) are the teams we've won, lost and drawn against since last winning a tournament. Reveal hidden contents 1970 World Cup (Mexico) Win: Romania, Czechoslovakia Draw: Brazil Loss: West Germany 1972 European Championship (Belgium) Loss: West Germany (qualifiers) 1974 World Cup (West Germany) Loss: Poland (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1976 European Championship (Yugoslavia) Loss: Czechoslovakia (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1978 World Cup (Argentina) Loss: Italy (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1980 European Championship (Italy) Win: Spain Draw: Belgium Loss: Italy 1982 World Cup (Spain) Win: France, Czechoslovakia, Kuwait Draw: West Germany, Spain 1984 European Championship (France) Loss: Denmark (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1986 World Cup (Mexico) Win: Poland, Paraguay Draw: Morocco Loss: Portugal, Argentina 1988 European Championship (West Germany) Loss: Ireland, Netherlands, USSR 1990 World Cup (Italy) Win: Egypt, Belgium, Cameroon Draw: Ireland, Netherlands Loss: West Germany, Italy (third place match) 1992 European Championship (Sweden) Draw: Denmark, France Loss: Sweden 1994 World Cup (USA) Loss: Norway, Netherlands (qualifiers) Did not qualify 1996 European Championship (England) Win: Scotland, Netherlands, Spain Draw: Switzerland Loss: Germany 1998 World Cup (France) Win: Tunisia, Colombia Loss: Romania, Argentina 2000 European Championship (Belgium/Netherlands) Win: Germany Loss: Portugal, Romania 2002 World Cup (South Korea/Japan) Win: Argentina, Denmark Draw: Sweden, Nigeria Loss: Brazil 2004 European Championship (Portugal) Win: Croatia, Switzerland Loss: France, Portugal 2006 World Cup (Germany) Win: Paraguay, Trinidad and Tobago, Ecuador Draw: Sweden, Portugal Loss: Portugal 2008 European Championship (Austria/Switzerland) Loss: Croatia (twice), Russia (qualifiers) Did not qualify 2010 World Cup (South Africa) Win: Slovenia Draw: USA, Algeria Loss: Germany 2012 European Championship (Poland/Ukraine) Win: Sweden, Ukraine Draw: France, Italy Loss: Italy 2014 World Cup (Brazil) Loss: Italy, Uruguay Draw: Costa Rica 2016 European Championship (France) Win: Wales Draw: Russia, Slovakia Loss: Iceland It all depends on what counts as ‘good’ surely. We’ve been one of the best teams ‘on paper’ for a few years now, currently ranked 5th but been higher in recent years. So really when people are saying ‘good’ they’re talking about teams around about their level. By virtue of getting past the group stages of big tournaments, the likes of Senegal, Colombia and Switzerland are all good sides, but hardly up there with football’s elite. If you think you’re one of football’s elites (let’s say top 8) but always lose to the other teams, then that’s an issue. That was still a decent side last night and the Germany side we beat in 2021 was better than people are giving them credit for imo and we won it fair and square. Probably the fact it was at home that makes it seem less of an achievement. Where I do think there’s a big argument is the nature of our draws. We still have to beat good sides whatever the case, but what we’ve had since 2016 has definitely been more favourable than previous years. Group of death in 2014, knocked out by Italy (finalists) in 2012 quarters, Germany (winners) in 2010 round of 16, Portugal in 2006 and Brazil (winners) in 2002 etc. All before the semis. Edited July 11 by St. Maximin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 8 hours ago, Mike said: You fucking twats. Who do I kill. You suit it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 He's looked alright but I really fancy Saka to get the better of Cucurella at least once on the outside, leading to a chance from a cross or a pull back in the box. Hopefully Kane isnt too deep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 2 hours ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said: You suit it @Rich Give me a magic hat. Cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 I mean its strange. I felt disconnected to the team until Bellingham scored that equaliser. That made me feel something when before it was like just watching out of obligation until that point. I felt down on the tournament because Southgate is still there, he picked a weird squad and the whole thing felt like a bit of a chore to get out of the way to get back to the real stuff. Now I'm completely invested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 6 hours ago, Mike said: @Rich Give me a magic hat. Cunt. St George's bucket hat? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 18 hours ago, Shadow Puppets said: Because I love football? I mean, you’re just reinforcing his point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 I’m hoping we can find a way to bring Sven along to the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 21 hours ago, Yorkie said: I'm not much different tbh. I'm a bit sad about it; I was quite emotional after we beat Denmark in the last semis and felt very much like a fan. I was gutted when Italy beat us, too. But I felt next to nothing against Switzerland and last night, while I enjoyed it, I didn't truly feel it. The circumstances are very different, I guess. Euro 2020 was during COVID and the whole tournament was seemingly giving everyone a massive lift, and there was still a sense of surprise that we did so well. Meanwhile, Newcastle didn't exist and I was desperate to find any team to cling to. Now: the expectations are different; we're three international tournaments in four years; the sense of England games being national events is a bit desensitised with sheer amount of football on; the novelty of being a team that - for instance - can win penalty shootouts - has gone; and we've not been an inspiring team to watch 95% of the time. I'm looking forward to Sunday and expect to feel pretty up for it cos it's a huge deal, but thus far I've felt somewhat neutral. 100% this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 (edited) 21 hours ago, Shadow Puppets said: Hardly edgy 😁 I guess I’m just trying to understand why I don’t feel anything for them. Like, I know I should, because I’m English and I love football, but it’s been weird. I’ve watched pretty much every single game of this Euros, and I’ve found myself being far more intensely involved in other games (for example Georgia’s run, and Turkey) than England. I’m struggling to compute why the emotion just isn’t hitting me with them. The Watkin’s goal last night was brilliant… an outstanding finish… but I hardly flinched when it went in. Tell me why I don’t feel anything, because I don’t understand 😁 I've lately felt that a large part of the disconnect the National team has from large chunks of the country is because they keep playing at Wembley. Not many people from the North are drive down for a midweek friendly. When the old Wembley was pulled down the team had to play round the country which I feel brought them a bit closer to the fan base Edited July 12 by DMC Autocorrect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggys First Goal Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 So should we get a bank holiday if we win this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Someone I know has 2 tickets for the Euros Final. He paid £300 each including accommodation, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place! It's at St Helens Registry Office, at 4pm and the bride's name is Hannah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 2 hours ago, Cronky said: Someone I know has 2 tickets for the Euros Final. He paid £300 each including accommodation, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place! It's at St Helens Registry Office, at 4pm and the bride's name is Hannah. the old'ns are the best! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 11/07/2024 at 04:50, TheBrownBottle said: If England win on Sunday, then Southgate is England’s greatest manager for me. The Euros is not as prestigious as the WC, but winning it on foreign soil, and also reaching a final, a semi and a QF previously would mean his record is superior to his predecessors. He would’ve needed to beat a very good (though not great) Spain side, and therefore have finally overcome the obstacle that most England managers don’t - getting past the first really good side they face. Southgate to date hasn’t improved upon his predecessors in that regard - beat Spain, and he has. I also think he’s a thoroughly mediocre manager and a poor tactician, and has been blessed with some phenomenally fortunate cup draws and a generation of talent which is the product of St George’s academy and the vast improvements in PL academies over the last decade. These are not contradictory positions. He honestly has one of the strangest resumes (sorry, CVs) out there and I don't even think that changes based on Sunday's result. England's relative (or actual) success over the last 8 years and whether they won because of him or in spite of him (or a bit of both + some luck) will be argued for decades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted Friday at 17:36 Share Posted Friday at 17:36 (edited) Absolutely pathetic to have the final on a Sunday. Edited Friday at 17:36 by Rafalove Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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