Ikon Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Stones in glass houses and all that. Twat! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Advocating boycotting petrol, that's where this is at now. I've never seen that before, ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbheed Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 sigh Aye, its the worst argument of all time. Awful. Not really the worst is it though If you think the takeover should not be allowed to go through on moral grounds (which btw is a stance anyone is entitled to and it's understandable) but then you happily view/consume content/products in which they also have investments it's hypocrisy, now some people are comfortable being selective and again that's their prerogative but the hypocrisy can be called out No it is not hypocrisy at all. These things are not comparable. I have to put petrol in my car, and even if i didn't I get the bus, so that consumes petrol. I have to get home from town, so I use an uber. There are things that you use in a society because you have to. The argument that I should quit using uber is ridiculous. If we applied that logic unilaterally, nobody could disagree with anything. Hate capitalism mate, well you've got an iphone! Check mate! It is hypocrisy. Using petrol is a personal choice. If you truly did want to take a stance against the regime you could, you just choose not to because it would be inconvinient for you to do so. You cant rationalise an issue to suit your personal lifestyle choices. Want to take a stance against Saudi - boycott all things that funds them. You wont because it would be inconvinient for you to do so and that unfortunately is not a valid argument at all. The fact that society is already dependant on that product should not cloud the fact that that is the case. I can't understand an argument which suggests that supporting a sports club owned by the Saudis is objectively worse than using a product which directly funds that very same regime. It makes no sense. As for the Capitilism comment, well that falls short in the sense that saying you hate Capitilam is totally different to actually taking a stance agaisnt it. There are people who do take a stance against Capitilism and live self sufficiently. It's a tried and tested method. This is absolutely brain dead. It is not a personal choice at all, so when my mother was in the RVI with Covid, I had to drive her there, and pick her up, I have to put petrol in my car to do that. Under your logic I should have..not? Society has been built around transport predominantly based on using a car, you're seriously comparing the infrastructure of a country to supporting a football club? Also what do you think buses run on? Air? Trains? so that leave me with walking/cycling? Now tell me how either of those things are viable? You're literally asking me to boycott petrol, think about that for a minute. There are people who do take a stance against Capitilism and live self sufficiently. It's a tried and tested method. Can you point me to one single person who has done that? And even if you can you are talking about being in a privileged position to even try it.I can't believe I'm even debating this honestly. I get that you think differently to me but the personal insults is just pathetic. Grow up. The fact that we are so dependent on petrol as a society is a symptomatic of the larger issue so yes, it is worse that our entire infrastructure is dependent on a state that is so morally reprehensible. That is the trade off we make off every single day of our lives. Well that's kind of my point, a moral stance agaisnt an issue is just that, you take the stance agaisnt the whole issue and not just cherry pick the parts that are inconvinient to you because its impractical for you to do so. The issue here is SA's appalling human rights record, not the fact they are potentially using the club to sportswash their image. Whether they're viable or not is totally irrelavnt. We're talking about funding a regime that systematically murders and tortures its citizens and repressed the rights of 50% of the population. There is literally no inconvenience that you and I have to suffer that can possibly justify the funding of those actions so that fact that we do fund them makes us hypocrites whether we like ot or not. That is the world we love in. There are plenty of communities that live off the grid. Read up on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Well that's going to upset a few on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Advocating boycotting petrol, that's where this is at now. I don't see what's so outrageous.. My family and our small businesses are running completely independent of oil and gas. At no great additional expense either.. If you care so much, you can always take a stand, like my father did successfully in court against Lukoil's Bulgarian subsidiary 20 years ago. In response, they destroyed his business, his life and our family continues to suffer from threats and lawsuits to this day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 The Saudis being allowed to sell petrol in this country is much worse than them being allowed to buy a football club, given how much of their wealth and power comes from oil. It's not whataboutery, its hypocrisy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Advocating boycotting petrol, that's where this is at now. I don't see what's so outrageous.. My family and our small businesses are running completely independent of oil and gas. At no great additional expense either.. If you care so much, you can always take a stand, like my father did successfully in court against Lukoil's Bulgarian subsidiary 20 years ago. In response, they destroyed his business, his life and our family continues to suffer from threats and lawsuits to this day. Great post. Smashed him to pieces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBingo Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Well that's going to upset a few on here. Yeah yeah , but have the Saudi government been showing Mickey Mouse Clubhouse on their snide Dousney Channel or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 The Saudis being allowed to sell petrol in this country is much worse than them being allowed to buy a football club, given how much of their wealth and power comes from oil. It's not whataboutery, its hypocrisy. It's not worse at all. Petrol is until recently pretty much a necessary thing that has been in people's lives forever. When you buy petrol there also isn't a Saudi flag on the pump telling you to visit Riyadh, you don't know where it's coming from. The second this goes through Newcastle Utd will become Saudi Arabia United Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 The Saudis being allowed to sell petrol in this country is much worse than them being allowed to buy a football club, given how much of their wealth and power comes from oil. It's not whataboutery, its hypocrisy. It's not worse at all. Petrol is until recently pretty much a necessary thing that has been in people's lives forever. When you buy petrol there also isn't a Saudi flag on the pump telling you to visit Riyadh, you don't know where it's coming from. The second this goes through Newcastle Utd will become Saudi Arabia United Will we be allowed to play internationals? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 "What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors..." "Can I stop you there Bobby, it's a business like any other and should be treated as such." Didn't expect this position to be warmly embraced by Newcastle supporters but here we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhoywhonder Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 The second this goes through Newcastle Utd will become Saudi Arabia United What? So for the last 13 years we've been Mike Ashley United? What a load of absolute bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasman Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Better start looking to replace my petrol powered television in time for the new season. Im getting a little sick of watching Disney on it any way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Can we get back to talking about cliques? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasman Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Can we get back to talking about cliques? The forum old boys are planning a knees up in Starbucks when it all goes through. Something on the PM system where they sent out the invites i heard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Hi! I joined this forum in early 2005. Before that I was a member of the old one. I'm bald but handsome and like long walks in the woods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Can we get back to talking about shitting? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Kill iz. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE27 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Ahh I see the forum is in my least favourite part of the boom bust takeover cycle. I'll pop back in a couple days when someone is deciphering the cryptic positive messages out of George caulkins latest tweet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Apart from a handful of people on here, the conversation never turns to this when discussing with other people (also other people’s fans). Whenever the topic is brought up when talking with people from work etc, it’s always about football and the amount of money and how we will be a force etc. Seems to me the only place this is talked about is by a handful of people on here banging the drum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturla Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 I'm definitively not welcome in any cliques after starting this argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 The Saudis being allowed to sell petrol in this country is much worse than them being allowed to buy a football club, given how much of their wealth and power comes from oil. It's not whataboutery, its hypocrisy. It's not worse at all. Petrol is until recently pretty much a necessary thing that has been in people's lives forever. When you buy petrol there also isn't a Saudi flag on the pump telling you to visit Riyadh, you don't know where it's coming from. The second this goes through Newcastle Utd will become Saudi Arabia United What absolute bollocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 I've just bought an electric car, cancelled my Disney subscription and burnt any of my kids associated paraphernalia so have moral superiority over most of you. Still gonna support the toon though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbheed Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 sigh Aye, its the worst argument of all time. Awful. Not really the worst is it though If you think the takeover should not be allowed to go through on moral grounds (which btw is a stance anyone is entitled to and it's understandable) but then you happily view/consume content/products in which they also have investments it's hypocrisy, now some people are comfortable being selective and again that's their prerogative but the hypocrisy can be called out No it is not hypocrisy at all. These things are not comparable. I have to put petrol in my car, and even if i didn't I get the bus, so that consumes petrol. I have to get home from town, so I use an uber. There are things that you use in a society because you have to. The argument that I should quit using uber is ridiculous. If we applied that logic unilaterally, nobody could disagree with anything. Hate capitalism mate, well you've got an iphone! Check mate! It is hypocrisy. Using petrol is a personal choice. If you truly did want to take a stance against the regime you could, you just choose not to because it would be inconvinient for you to do so. You cant rationalise an issue to suit your personal lifestyle choices. Want to take a stance against Saudi - boycott all things that funds them. You wont because it would be inconvinient for you to do so and that unfortunately is not a valid argument at all. The fact that society is already dependant on that product should not cloud the fact that that is the case. I can't understand an argument which suggests that supporting a sports club owned by the Saudis is objectively worse than using a product which directly funds that very same regime. It makes no sense. As for the Capitilism comment, well that falls short in the sense that saying you hate Capitilam is totally different to actually taking a stance agaisnt it. There are people who do take a stance against Capitilism and live self sufficiently. It's a tried and tested method. This is absolutely brain dead. It is not a personal choice at all, so when my mother was in the RVI with Covid, I had to drive her there, and pick her up, I have to put petrol in my car to do that. Under your logic I should have..not? Society has been built around transport predominantly based on using a car, you're seriously comparing the infrastructure of a country to supporting a football club? Also what do you think buses run on? Air? Trains? so that leave me with walking/cycling? Now tell me how either of those things are viable? You're literally asking me to boycott petrol, think about that for a minute. There are people who do take a stance against Capitilism and live self sufficiently. It's a tried and tested method. Can you point me to one single person who has done that? And even if you can you are talking about being in a privileged position to even try it.I can't believe I'm even debating this honestly. I get that you think differently to me but the personal insults is just pathetic. Grow up. The fact that we are so dependent on petrol as a society is a symptomatic of the larger issue so yes, it is worse that our entire infrastructure is dependent on a state that is so morally reprehensible. That is the trade off we make off every single day of our lives. Well that's kind of my point, a moral stance agaisnt an issue is just that, you take the stance agaisnt the whole issue and not just cherry pick the parts that are inconvinient to you because its impractical for you to do so. The issue here is SA's applaing human rights record, not the fact they are potentially using the club the sportswash their image. Whether they're viable or not is totally irrelavnt. We're talking about funding a regime that systematically murders and tortures its citizens and repressed the rights of 50% of the population. There is literally no inconvenience that you and I have to suffer that can possibly justify the funding of those actions so that fact that we do fund them makes us hypocrites whether we like ot or not. That is the world we love in. There are plenty of communities that live off the grid. Read up on it. This is a completely different point to the one you originally made, you made the argument I'm picking morality out of convenience I've just showed you that it would be near on impossible to boycott petrol. Even if I did, I'm funding it in other ways via public transport, you're missing the point completely. I have to trade off some morality to function in the society we live in, thats out of my control, that is not analogous to to supporting a football team, I don't see how that's hard to figure out? It's 'inconvenient" as you put it because society has been structured in way that has made it impossible to do so. I make the trade off because I have to. Right so to preserve my absolute moral purity I should live completely off grid? and how do you propose I do that? I'd have to travel there (car, capitalism, petrol) Google them (capitalism). You can see how if you apply this argument it strays into complete ridiculousness? Right? Near impossible but possible, right? How do you justify funding the regime that subjects its citizens to that kind of repression when you yourself admit that there is a moral alternative. The answer is because it's more convenient to make this moral trade off than to bother going through the sacrifices you personally would have to make to a true moral stand against the murder, torture and suppression of the citizens of SA. For the record, I'm not suggesting we boycott petrol, I'm just pointing out we're hypocrites whether we like to or not so dismissing the obvious comparison to Twitter, Facebook and Uber is wrong. "Whataboutery" is the new "Fake News". Its an invalid argument, which is the point of yours that I objected to. Again, I'm not the one suggesting you live morally pure. I'm just pointing out that you're not and therefore cant make the argument that others are immoral because they are ok with the takeover. It doesnt mean they support the regime (in a moral sense) and it doesnt mean they are being sports washed, those 2 things can be mutually exclusive. You admit to making that trade off which is my salient point, thay makes you the hypocrite which is also what you objected to. That's pretty much my only point. For the record, I think we clearly share the same view on SA, the only difference is I accept my hypocrisy whilst you deny it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 UK only gets approx 3% of oil from Saudi Arabia anyway (might be a little out of date). You'd have to be particularly militant to avoid all petrol in that basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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