TaylorJ_01 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 He's not playing in the right country. With a player of his talent and all we can s**** on about is his f***ing work rate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 If we're insistent on sticking with a 4-4-2, then play him up front with Remy- but as a false 9. Whenever we have tried the F9 tactic it has been in an incredibly disjointed, misunderstood 4-3-3 that has seen us eliminate any attacking threat of our own. At least this way we can still incorporate Remy in the team to stretch defences with Hatem dropping inbetween the lines- service from a midfield partnership of Cabaye and Anita would only enhance this. (Good) formations/systems are so flexible nowadays that it would mirror a 4-2-3-1 when attacking. Please. Alan. Just give him that #10 role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 He'll play a big part on the second half of the season, IMO. I think that, since Everton, Pardew has been looking to get the work ethic back that was in the side 2 years ago, re-building that foundation. Hatem will be re-introduced pretty soon, I'm sure of it. Hopefully you're right. If that happens then it would look like Pardew had got it spot on with HBA again. Sorry but nothing to do with Pardew. He will play him if he has no choice, injuries or underperformances. During the 11/12 season, Hatem took his chance (obertan then Raylor were Pardew first choices) and forced his way back in the starting 11. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 He'll play a big part on the second half of the season, IMO. I think that, since Everton, Pardew has been looking to get the work ethic back that was in the side 2 years ago, re-building that foundation. Hatem will be re-introduced pretty soon, I'm sure of it. Hopefully you're right. If that happens then it would look like Pardew had got it spot on with HBA again. Sorry but nothing to do with Pardew. Just seen that post I'll bite like. Pardew has treat Ben Arfa fucking terribly, sick of reading this bollocks about him "playing a blinder" with him by dropping him for Obertan, Ryan Taylor and Shola Ameobi. He drops him because he doesn't know how to use him and he's certainly not making him a better player in the process. If we're winning games without him then that's OK, irritating but OK. He's not "getting it spot on" with him though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It's funny that Bale has been used as an example, when at one point it was universally accepted that he was a massive flop and not good enough for Spurs. We're now talking about Ben Arfa as if he hasn't got the same ability as Bale, which is utter nonsense. Ben Arfa is a ridiculously talented player and to suggest that he hasn't got the ability to play at the same level as Bale is really naive. The universally accepted flop of an 18 year old? Never. He scored 3 goals in 4 starts for them. As a left back at that. It took him plenty of starts before they managed to win a match he was involved in but a massive flop never good enough for Spurs? Get to fuck. He hasn't proven consistently that he has the same level of ability as Bale. Bale scored more goals last season than Hatem has in 5 years. What planet are you living on? He's more Nani than Bale. Loads of untapped ability that has meant he sits on the bench while more consistent, team based players get playing time. Honestly man, is there any need? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 He'll play a big part on the second half of the season, IMO. I think that, since Everton, Pardew has been looking to get the work ethic back that was in the side 2 years ago, re-building that foundation. Hatem will be re-introduced pretty soon, I'm sure of it. Hopefully you're right. If that happens then it would look like Pardew had got it spot on with HBA again. Sorry but nothing to do with Pardew. Just seen that post I'll bite like. Pardew has treat Ben Arfa f***ing terribly, sick of reading this bollocks about him "playing a blinder" with him by dropping him for Obertan, Ryan Taylor and Shola Ameobi. He drops him because he doesn't know how to use him and he's certainly not making him a better player in the process. If we're winning games without him then that's OK, irritating but OK. He's not "getting it spot on" with him though. This. He'll play him if Sissoko or Gouffran picks an injury, or after a bad run of results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Pardew has shown excellent man management skills with Ben Arfa imo. Ben Arfa has caused disruptions everywhere he's been yet here, him and Pardew seem to have a good understanding with each other. Ben Arfa will be back in the side before too long, you can even see in his cameo's the effort he is putting in. Ben Arfa throughout his career has had spells on the bench as well spells of brilliance, it's no different here and it won't be any different at any other club. It's just who he is. Genius talent with a flawed attitude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 New Striker Remy Ben Arfa Gouffran Cabaye Tiote Santon Colo Yanga-Mbiwa Debuchy Krul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Think it's harsh to leave Sissoko out of any line-up currently. Really feel he's developing well as a player and very much involved in everything good we are doing at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Pardew has shown excellent man management skills with Ben Arfa imo. Ben Arfa has caused disruptions everywhere he's been yet here, him and Pardew seem to have a good understanding with each other. Ben Arfa will be back in the side before too long, you can even see in his cameo's the effort he is putting in. Ben Arfa throughout his career has had spells on the bench as well spells of brilliance, it's no different here and it won't be any different at any other club. It's just who he is. Genius talent with a flawed attitude. Ben Arfa has probably matured over the last few years but still I agree, It's a near miracle that Ben Arfa hasn't publicly called Pardew a cunt, it really is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Ben Arfa cannot play in the centre unless he is given no defensive role whatsoever. The best parts of his game have always been cutting inside from out wide and dribbling at/past people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Let's see how far Eng 'work rate' get them in Brazil. Actually, Brazil themselves are one of the hardest working sides in the world - yes, they are great at keeping possession, have fantastic skill on the ball and in controlling it, but have you ever watched how much running OFF the ball they do in order to create space for each other..?? No side can win anything without having a decent work rate added to their skills and the lack of off-ball movement in our side is something I've been griping about on here for seasons now. England's problem is not that of work rate - it is because they haven't any really talented players, esp in m/f. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorin Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 People do realize Sissoko is playing a winger? Do we really want him to adapt to a winger? I think not. He could be our Ramires. The only thing he contributes with as a winger is that "false CM" (whatever that is) along with pace and work-rate, there's no HBA magic in that. HBA doesn't fit any 442 anyway and we could just as well sell him as it doesn't seem Pardew is gonna change up from that old tragic formation anytime soon. False 10, False 9, False whatever, his return to this side will be from bench only as we're out of the Mickey cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Still think an extended run starting and we'd see the benefit. In the hole, behind Remy, im convinced we'd be a better side than with Shola starting instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Still this rubbish about Hatem behind the striker? It was nonsensical back in 2011. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I'm with Ronnie like. He's magic wide right, preferably as part of a forward three. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I just don't think it's possible that he would be unable to make a decent fist of the number 10 role, given a few games. I mean the lad is class, he would make it work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I don't think it really matters where he is tbh. He's just a class player on his day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Apart from on the left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The team has to be built around him..ie an intelligent striker (a no 9) with pace who Hatem can pick out...We don't have that player..There are about a half dozen other things that need changing but there is no appetite for it while we are winning games with the 'high energy' disco mix we play atm. Remy? He's a deep forward that likes to pick the ball up (mostly wide left areas) and run into attacking space. That's why I said no 9. Hatem needs a real No.9 that plays off the shoulder and is looking to 'get in behind'... Thinking about it Cisse could fit the bill but he lacks a football brain and pace. Chelsea have a similar problem right now because one of their strikers has lost a yard and the other has morphed into a workhorse who does a lot of work outside the box. HBA and Ba looked class together at times tbh when Ba was in the centre (and they obviously linked well when he was wide left too). Ben Arfa clipped some delightful balls over the back line and Ba met most of them (not sure he actually scored from any mind). There was a semblance of something against West Brom at home, including a Ben Arfa assist/Ba goal (which was as instinctive a strike as you could wish to see). But we lost and it was abandoned. Hatem was dropped in favour of Best (then came off the bench to score against Bolton in the next game). I think that WBA game was the last we've seen of Ben Arfa in that traditional 'just off the front man' role. It's something I'd like to see tried again, particularly if we don't sign a new striker in January. It's tragic having all that talent sat on the bench just because he, allegedly, doesn't fit into a flat front 6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexthegreat Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Don't like watching him in the middle. He isn't that strong, he tries to hold on to the ball for far too long, and he often doesn't show enough awareness of the other players around him. He gives up possession far too easily when he plays there. The problem Pardew has is when he is out wide his defensive play can be so awful that it effects the team - Debuchy looks twice the player without Ben Arfa in front of him. Personally, I'd like to see him in the side anyway against teams like Palace, but you cant argue with the results Pardew has been getting without him. He'll be 27 in a few months and Pardew has got more out of him than his other managers. But with 18 months on his contract and with him not in the side you have to wonder how much longer he'll be here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 not just his defensive play but his off the ball play when we have it, basically when he doesn't have the ball he is out of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coalminer Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 not just his defensive play but his off the ball play when we have it, basically when he doesn't have the ball he is out of the game. I'd play him as a No. 10 with no target man and two wide forwards. That way, it doesn't matter if he doesn't track back and him staying forward is a good thing. He could certainly hold the ball up on a counter whilst waiting for the others to catch up. Just don't try that long ball wank... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 not just his defensive play but his off the ball play when we have it, basically when he doesn't have the ball he is out of the game. I'd play him as a No. 10 with no target man and two wide forwards. That way, it doesn't matter if he doesn't track back and him staying forward is a good thing. He could certainly hold the ball up on a counter whilst waiting for the others to catch up. Just don't try that long ball w***... not sure if he'd make a no.10. I always had him down as, if this makes sense, one of a pair of no.10ish type players playing off a forward, dovetailing and drifting, the problem being his off the ball movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coalminer Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 not just his defensive play but his off the ball play when we have it, basically when he doesn't have the ball he is out of the game. I'd play him as a No. 10 with no target man and two wide forwards. That way, it doesn't matter if he doesn't track back and him staying forward is a good thing. He could certainly hold the ball up on a counter whilst waiting for the others to catch up. Just don't try that long ball w***... not sure if he'd make a no.10. I always had him down as, if this makes sense, one of a pair of no.10ish type players playing off a forward, dovetailing and drifting, the problem being his off the ball movement. I always liked the idea of an attacking 'wedge' speared by someone like Carroll, but as you point out about his movement; I think HBA might be better getting the ball first so he can either turn and try and take on the defence or hold it up and play the ball on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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