Guest bimpy474 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Probably best she stays a bit of mystery. I'm surprised you've passed up the chance of a fiver mind. It was tough like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Fiver? I have to see Mrs Bimpy at least. Just to win a bet. Probably best she stays a bit of mystery. Good lad. I hide mine too. Thread derailed I hope. Get yourself over to Chat or something, this place is poisonous. Christ, meetings all morning tomorrow later this morning. I'll be fragrant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Fiver? I have to see Mrs Bimpy at least. Just to win a bet. Probably best she stays a bit of mystery. Good lad. I hide mine too. Thread derailed I hope. Get yourself over to Chat or something, this place is poisonous. Christ, meetings all morning tomorrow later this morning. I'll be fragrant. I'm only nimbling in forum at the moment, bought myself Crysis 3. I creep about like a snail when i play that. 10 hours gameplay turns into a 100 when i'm playing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Fiver? I have to see Mrs Bimpy at least. Just to win a bet. Probably best she stays a bit of mystery. Good lad. I hide mine too. Thread derailed I hope. Get yourself over to Chat or something, this place is poisonous. Christ, meetings all morning tomorrow later this morning. I'll be fragrant. I'm only nimbling in forum at the moment, bought myself Crysis 3. I creep about like a snail when i play that. 10 hours gameplay turns into a 100 when i'm playing What happened here? New page crisis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 To be honest Trollemarche, if all you're saying is that the press night not see Pardew as a failure full stop, not many I imagine would have taken you up on it. But then either intentionally or otherwise you defend this press view and say that you understand them (which kind of makes it your view too) and throw in some horse shit and argue that we have a sensible transfer policy and despite us only getting two loans over 2 transfer windows, and that our squad is now stronger then when we just got promoted (no shit). That's why you're getting barbs thrown at you not for the press bit. So no that's not all you're saying Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I said I understand why they'd think that, because it's massively, massively obvious. It really is. And yes, people did take me up on it. That's where the shitstorm started. I said our squad has gotten stronger in the last 3 years because it clearly has, promotion or no. I now realise that using phrases like "we have gotten stronger" sets off massive alarm bells in the mind of someone who hates Ashley / Pardew because it implies they might be doing something right. So they jump on it, regardless of what was actually said. Example: I asked repeatedly "Which of Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Spurs do you think we should be finishing above?" (obvious answer: none of them) and nobody ever answered because to do so would be to allow some acknowledgment of the idea that perhaps, in some small way, Pardew and / or Ashley hadn't completely, 100% failed. And then I got jumped on as if I'd just defended Pardew. I don't see how anyone can argue against those two basic statements. The only remotely contentious thing I did was not to condemn our transfer policy, on the grounds that so far the squad has clearly improved (see above) despite or because of it. The response I got was more in line with something a lot stronger and pro-Ashley / Pardew which I think some people genuinely thought was what I was saying, having failed to really pay attention. I was getting counterarguments thrown at me to things I hadn't really said, such as "wage bill absolutely defines league position" which I didn't say and "Newcastle's transfer policy is absolutely brilliant and should not be doubted" which I also didn't say. And a lot of others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 D-Day +4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I said I understand why they'd think that, because it's massively, massively obvious. It really is. And yes, people did take me up on it. That's where the shitstorm started. I said our squad has gotten stronger in the last 3 years because it clearly has, promotion or no. I now realise that using phrases like "we have gotten stronger" sets off massive alarm bells in the mind of someone who hates Ashley / Pardew because it implies they might be doing something right. So they jump on it, regardless of what was actually said. Example: I asked repeatedly "Which of Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Spurs do you think we should be finishing above?" (obvious answer: none of them) and nobody ever answered because to do so would be to allow some acknowledgment of the idea that perhaps, in some small way, Pardew and / or Ashley hadn't completely, 100% failed. And then I got jumped on as if I'd just defended Pardew. I don't see how anyone can argue against those two basic statements. The only remotely contentious thing I did was not to condemn our transfer policy, on the grounds that so far the squad has clearly improved (see above) despite or because of it. The response I got was more in line with something a lot stronger and pro-Ashley / Pardew which I think some people genuinely thought was what I was saying, having failed to really pay attention. I was getting counterarguments thrown at me to things I hadn't really said, such as "wage bill absolutely defines league position" which I didn't say and "Newcastle's transfer policy is absolutely brilliant and should not be doubted" which I also didn't say. And a lot of others. We should have been above Man U and would have been with a half decent manager, something we don't have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Could argue that we could've sneaked into 6th or 7th this year, for sure, even if you'd never dream of putting us above them at the start of the season. But even then: is that enough for the press to dub Pardew a failure? It'd be seen as extremely harsh, for the sake of those 5 or so points. At the end of the day, Man Utd have had a shocker by their standards but they've still done enough to stay in touch with the top 5 or 6 and will probably finish thereabouts. To restate, I'm not defending Pardew, I'm second-guessing the media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Could argue that we could've sneaked into 6th or 7th this year, for sure, even if you'd never dream of putting us above them at the start of the season. But even then: is that enough for the press to dub Pardew a failure? It'd be seen as extremely harsh, for the sake of those 5 or so points. At the end of the day, Man Utd have had a shocker by their standards but they've still done enough to stay in touch with the top 5 or 6 and will probably finish thereabouts. To restate, I'm not defending Pardew, I'm second-guessing the media. I'm not too bothered what the press say, they are fairly ignorant and just spout clichés most of the time because it's easier than having to think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 We should be trying to be above all of them. The best way to try and be above any of them is to be a complete flat-track bully. The preposterous myth that has grown up during the Premier League era is that the clubs that can't compete financially with the top one or two, can't therefore compete for places. How does Man City's money stop Newcastle beating Swansea or Hull or sunderland? It doesn't but clubs like ours want the fans to think that it does so they don't have to spend any money, or hire anyone more than a League One reject to be the manager, and a significant proportion of the crowd lap it up, go home and take photos of the league table if we're 7th on goal difference. The facts are that Arsenal's record against the clubs around them (other than Spurs, who they ritually humiliate the way we used to do to the mackems before Alan Pardew rocked up) is horrendous, relatively speaking. So was Bobby Robson's, with some notable exceptions - shit at Anfield, shit at Old Trafford, shit at Stamford Bridge and we generally got turned over at home by better sides too but most of the sides in the bottom half who came to SJP were disdainfully swatted away like an errant fly. That will get you far more points over a season than spending most of the year patting yourself on the back for being the latest in a long line to get one over David Moyes whilst Steve Bruce and Gus Poyet come to Newcastle and get Alan Pardew to wipe their arse and carry their bags to the bus. You generally need about 70 points on average to take 4th place and most teams who get 4th win around 19-21 games and draws make up the rest. If you win your home games against the rubbish, as a Newcastle team (and certainly this team, as it was three weeks ago) always should, and have half decent away form, you should be there or thereabouts without even needing to get a single point against Man City or Chelsea or Arsenal. 13 home wins, 3 draws, 4 defeats 8 away wins, 5 draws, 7 defeats That would be Champions League form. Really not too much to ask for over the course of a season if you concentrate on blowing away the utter dross that makes up the majority of the league table at home, as Arsenal do and have done for years, no matter how many times they get turned over at Old Trafford. Make up a blip or two with the odd bonus against a better side and you're there. Even if you fall short, there is never an excuse for not trying. Don't know where this chronic lack of ambition came from amongst our support considering what it was like ten years ago when 5th was rightly called out as not being good enough but it's really harming us. Even if you think Ashley's a cunt, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to demand better from the mug in charge of the team. Demand better all the time, make his life a fucking misery for serving up this shit. Vast swathes of people have bought into the club propaganda machine that because Man City have loads of money, Newcastle can't turn West Ham and Hull over at home so just let him off with it. It's embarrassing. Grow some fucking bollocks ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 wullie, beating the shite consistently is all a club like ourselves, spurs, everton etc. need to do to be in contention for places...and it served us very well under keegan and robson, as you've pointed out... unfortunately have one of the most cowardly managers i've ever seen in top flight football trying to lose all the time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Seriously, is it just me being idealistic or is perhaps an expanded and tailored version of Wullie's post there not perfect for some kind of 'open letter' that could somehow be distributed to match going fans (and beyond?) Create a bit of buzz on social media, so people are expecting it, which I'm sure a lot of people on here including myself would be more than willing to provide with grandioso tweets to news outlets (especially the banned ones) and journo's and then get the thing written, I reckon it would get about quick enough and it would be a good way to build pressure if a well read outlet picked it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 We should be trying to be above all of them. The best way to try and be above any of them is to be a complete flat-track bully. The preposterous myth that has grown up during the Premier League era is that the clubs that can't compete financially with the top one or two, can't therefore compete for places. How does Man City's money stop Newcastle beating Swansea or Hull or sunderland? It doesn't but clubs like ours want the fans to think that it does so they don't have to spend any money, or hire anyone more than a League One reject to be the manager, and a significant proportion of the crowd lap it up, go home and take photos of the league table if we're 7th on goal difference. The facts are that Arsenal's record against the clubs around them (other than Spurs, who they ritually humiliate the way we used to do to the mackems before Alan Pardew rocked up) is horrendous, relatively speaking. So was Bobby Robson's, with some notable exceptions - shit at Anfield, shit at Old Trafford, shit at Stamford Bridge and we generally got turned over at home by better sides too but most of the sides in the bottom half who came to SJP were disdainfully swatted away like an errant fly. That will get you far more points over a season than spending most of the year patting yourself on the back for being the latest in a long line to get one over David Moyes whilst Steve Bruce and Gus Poyet come to Newcastle and get Alan Pardew to wipe their arse and carry their bags to the bus. You generally need about 70 points on average to take 4th place and most teams who get 4th win around 19-21 games and draws make up the rest. If you win your home games against the rubbish, as a Newcastle team (and certainly this team, as it was three weeks ago) always should, and have half decent away form, you should be there or thereabouts without even needing to get a single point against Man City or Chelsea or Arsenal. 13 home wins, 3 draws, 4 defeats 8 away wins, 5 draws, 7 defeats That would be Champions League form. Really not too much to ask for over the course of a season if you concentrate on blowing away the utter dross that makes up the majority of the league table at home, as Arsenal do and have done for years, no matter how many times they get turned over at Old Trafford. Make up a blip or two with the odd bonus against a better side and you're there. Even if you fall short, there is never an excuse for not trying. Don't know where this chronic lack of ambition came from amongst our support considering what it was like ten years ago when 5th was rightly called out as not being good enough but it's really harming us. Even if you think Ashley's a cunt, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to demand better from the mug in charge of the team. Demand better all the time, make his life a fucking misery for serving up this shit. Vast swathes of people have bought into the club propaganda machine that because Man City have loads of money, Newcastle can't turn West Ham and Hull over at home so just let him off with it. It's embarrassing. Grow some fucking bollocks ffs. This. This, this and this is all. SBR's philosophy in a nutshell. Beat the shit out of whomever you can beat the shit out of, die trying to beat the top guns. That's literally the only mentality you need to have in ANY sport, and football, as SBR said famously, is a simple game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2562437/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Losing-Pardew-blow-club-marches-shoelaces-tied-together.html Fat, slimy cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbs Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2562437/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Losing-Pardew-blow-club-marches-shoelaces-tied-together.html Fat, slimy c***. Why? He's correct. He praises the fans massively. Its Ashley and his mismanagement of the club who the article is directed at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well, he claims losing Pardew would be a 'blow' and an example of another humuliating implosion. So no, he's not right at all. He's a clueless fat fuck writing about something he has no clue about. Unless you're an Alan Pardew fan, which at this point is tantamount to perversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Someone should change the thread title. It has become Alan Pardew thread II. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 We should be trying to be above all of them. The best way to try and be above any of them is to be a complete flat-track bully. The preposterous myth that has grown up during the Premier League era is that the clubs that can't compete financially with the top one or two, can't therefore compete for places. How does Man City's money stop Newcastle beating Swansea or Hull or sunderland? It doesn't but clubs like ours want the fans to think that it does so they don't have to spend any money, or hire anyone more than a League One reject to be the manager, and a significant proportion of the crowd lap it up, go home and take photos of the league table if we're 7th on goal difference. The facts are that Arsenal's record against the clubs around them (other than Spurs, who they ritually humiliate the way we used to do to the mackems before Alan Pardew rocked up) is horrendous, relatively speaking. So was Bobby Robson's, with some notable exceptions - shit at Anfield, shit at Old Trafford, shit at Stamford Bridge and we generally got turned over at home by better sides too but most of the sides in the bottom half who came to SJP were disdainfully swatted away like an errant fly. That will get you far more points over a season than spending most of the year patting yourself on the back for being the latest in a long line to get one over David Moyes whilst Steve Bruce and Gus Poyet come to Newcastle and get Alan Pardew to wipe their arse and carry their bags to the bus. You generally need about 70 points on average to take 4th place and most teams who get 4th win around 19-21 games and draws make up the rest. If you win your home games against the rubbish, as a Newcastle team (and certainly this team, as it was three weeks ago) always should, and have half decent away form, you should be there or thereabouts without even needing to get a single point against Man City or Chelsea or Arsenal. 13 home wins, 3 draws, 4 defeats 8 away wins, 5 draws, 7 defeats That would be Champions League form. Really not too much to ask for over the course of a season if you concentrate on blowing away the utter dross that makes up the majority of the league table at home, as Arsenal do and have done for years, no matter how many times they get turned over at Old Trafford. Make up a blip or two with the odd bonus against a better side and you're there. Even if you fall short, there is never an excuse for not trying. Don't know where this chronic lack of ambition came from amongst our support considering what it was like ten years ago when 5th was rightly called out as not being good enough but it's really harming us. Even if you think Ashley's a cunt, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to demand better from the mug in charge of the team. Demand better all the time, make his life a fucking misery for serving up this shit. Vast swathes of people have bought into the club propaganda machine that because Man City have loads of money, Newcastle can't turn West Ham and Hull over at home so just let him off with it. It's embarrassing. Grow some fucking bollocks ffs. Well I guess you're right in that if you could reliably beat the teams outside the top four, you'd get a CL place regardless of how badly you do against the top four. But football, like life isn't like that. In any case, it would only work if the top four aren't going to do as well against the other teams as you are. The bigger flaw is underestimating the capacity of the likes of Hull to raise their game and give much better sides than us a run for their money on the day. There's no question that we've seen, over a number of years, that it's very difficult for clubs to break into that top four that was established in the very early days of the CL. It's been a self-perpetuating elite. Only Man City appear to have broken through, and that's only because they've spent obsene amounts of money. The likes of us, Everton and Spurs have had their moments, but not established themselves. But the idea that I really baulk at is 'fifth isn't good enough', especially when you hark back to Sir Bob's era. Getting rid of Sir Bob was a terrible mistake and a wasted opportunity, and it came about because of pressure brought about by the so-called failure of finishing fifth. And no-one can blame outsiders here, because the movement against Sir Bob came from local supporters, a local press, a local Chairman and a local captain. IMO we have to accept that if we do make a breakthrough, it'll need a longer term plan, and a bit of luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2562437/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Losing-Pardew-blow-club-marches-shoelaces-tied-together.html Fat, slimy cunt. What a twat. I like the way at the end he says Pardew has been saddled with us. Well boo fucking hoo, if it's such a trial for the little lamb he can fuck off and not come back, we won't shed any tears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 We should be trying to be above all of them. The best way to try and be above any of them is to be a complete flat-track bully. The preposterous myth that has grown up during the Premier League era is that the clubs that can't compete financially with the top one or two, can't therefore compete for places. How does Man City's money stop Newcastle beating Swansea or Hull or sunderland? It doesn't but clubs like ours want the fans to think that it does so they don't have to spend any money, or hire anyone more than a League One reject to be the manager, and a significant proportion of the crowd lap it up, go home and take photos of the league table if we're 7th on goal difference. The facts are that Arsenal's record against the clubs around them (other than Spurs, who they ritually humiliate the way we used to do to the mackems before Alan Pardew rocked up) is horrendous, relatively speaking. So was Bobby Robson's, with some notable exceptions - shit at Anfield, shit at Old Trafford, shit at Stamford Bridge and we generally got turned over at home by better sides too but most of the sides in the bottom half who came to SJP were disdainfully swatted away like an errant fly. That will get you far more points over a season than spending most of the year patting yourself on the back for being the latest in a long line to get one over David Moyes whilst Steve Bruce and Gus Poyet come to Newcastle and get Alan Pardew to wipe their arse and carry their bags to the bus. You generally need about 70 points on average to take 4th place and most teams who get 4th win around 19-21 games and draws make up the rest. If you win your home games against the rubbish, as a Newcastle team (and certainly this team, as it was three weeks ago) always should, and have half decent away form, you should be there or thereabouts without even needing to get a single point against Man City or Chelsea or Arsenal. 13 home wins, 3 draws, 4 defeats 8 away wins, 5 draws, 7 defeats That would be Champions League form. Really not too much to ask for over the course of a season if you concentrate on blowing away the utter dross that makes up the majority of the league table at home, as Arsenal do and have done for years, no matter how many times they get turned over at Old Trafford. Make up a blip or two with the odd bonus against a better side and you're there. Even if you fall short, there is never an excuse for not trying. Don't know where this chronic lack of ambition came from amongst our support considering what it was like ten years ago when 5th was rightly called out as not being good enough but it's really harming us. Even if you think Ashley's a cunt, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to demand better from the mug in charge of the team. Demand better all the time, make his life a fucking misery for serving up this shit. Vast swathes of people have bought into the club propaganda machine that because Man City have loads of money, Newcastle can't turn West Ham and Hull over at home so just let him off with it. It's embarrassing. Grow some fucking bollocks ffs. Well I guess you're right in that if you could reliably beat the teams outside the top four, you'd get a CL place regardless of how badly you do against the top four. But football, like life isn't like that. In any case, it would only work if the top four aren't going to do as well against the other teams as you are. The bigger flaw is underestimating the capacity of the likes of Hull to raise their game and give much better sides than us a run for their money on the day. There's no question that we've seen, over a number of years, that it's very difficult for clubs to break into that top four that was established in the very early days of the CL. It's been a self-perpetuating elite. Only Man City appear to have broken through, and that's only because they've spent obsene amounts of money. The likes of us, Everton and Spurs have had their moments, but not established themselves. But the idea that I really baulk at is 'fifth isn't good enough', especially when you hark back to Sir Bob's era. Getting rid of Sir Bob was a terrible mistake and a wasted opportunity, and it came about because of pressure brought about by the so-called failure of finishing fifth. And no-one can blame outsiders here, because the movement against Sir Bob came from local supporters, a local press, a local Chairman and a local captain. IMO we have to accept that if we do make a breakthrough, it'll need a longer term plan, and a bit of luck. I never said it would be easy. That's why it's elite sport. The point remains that if Newcastle beat the teams they should be beating, they will be very close to a points tally that is typically enough to qualify, regardless of how much money other teams have. If that points tally isn't enough, bad luck, try again next year - not "Hull might raise their game and God, Man City are rich aren't they? Better not bother our arse, 8th is top of our league." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Nobody's suggesting we don't try to finish higher! But it's a lot harder than you seem to think to have a season like the one you described - let alone do it consistently - unless you're a very good side indeed. As far as trying is concerned, what I do think is a real issue is that teams basically stop playing when they've nothing to play for. Every season, at least a couple of sides who can no longer get into Europe or go down go into massive slumps as the players, on some level, jack it in, so 8th becomes 10th or 10th becomes 14th. Which is pretty wank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://www.themag.co.uk/assets/2011/12/BenArfa13.jpg Hatem Ben Arfa told he has no future on Newcastle-Online. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Nobody's suggesting we don't try to finish higher! Apart from the club and the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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