juniatmoko Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 So from an Islamic point of view, can someone tell me what the difference between Virgin Money and Wonga is please. Many people would consider Wonga to be usurious. All Western banks violate Islam by charging interest, but the excessive interest charged by Wonga may simply be more egregious. Islam doesn't do breaking the rules by degree's, the law is the law. It'd be like an Imam saying hey it's OK having a pint a day but don't get p*ssed and only one bacon butty a week, mind. We all know that religious people pick and choose how to interpret their scripture all the time. Islam is no different to any other religion in that way. This has to be a notable occasion because I agree with you for once..! I was once in Malaysia, a Muslim country in the main, and our guide informed us that a certain road was a bad spot for being stopped by Police for a breathalyser ; needless to say, I queried this by saying I thought Muslims didn't touch alcohol, whereupon he replied ; 'Yes - but we are MODERN Muslims...!' modern muslims... LOL... *big facepalm... in malaysia & indonesia alcohol is legal but on certain spot only... can't drunk & wandering around in public places... alcohol culture already in the society history actually even before western alcohol was introduce in south east asia. Muslims society in South East Asia level has degree also such as Fanatic Moslem (Influence more by Sunni & Shia from Arab region), Moderate Moslem, ID Card Moslem, Moslem mixed with Ancient Belief of South East Asia Region, etc etc. Well it's already told in the prophecies among Moslem since beginning... Moslem in end of time will divide into hundred of groups... but only 1 group will safe into Allah side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
healthyaddiction Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Am I reading the whole islamic loan system wrong or is it all a bit of a fudge so that they can get loans but not call them that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniatmoko Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Am I reading the whole islamic loan system wrong or is it all a bit of a fudge so that they can get loans but not call them that? It is not the loan system is the problem... the insane loan shark interest is the problem... you can give loan but if you choke people to death in debt... that's what's wrong... In short you can help people by loaning money but don't expect your money to grow/charged interest... You help people with honestly that you want to help... if they add a bit money/help you back with other things because of your help... it is their sincerity not because you forcing them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Am I reading the whole islamic loan system wrong or is it all a bit of a fudge so that they can get loans but not call them that? That is exactly what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Am I reading the whole islamic loan system wrong or is it all a bit of a fudge so that they can get loans but not call them that? It's a load of baloney man: Islamic banking has the same purpose as conventional banking: to make money for the banking institute by lending out capital. But that is not the sole purpose either. Adherence to Islamic law and ensuring fair play is also at the core of Islamic banking. Because Islam forbids simply lending out money at interest (see riba), Islamic rules on transactions (known as Fiqh al-Muamalat) have been created to prevent this perceived evil. The basic principle of Islamic banking is based on risk-sharing which is a component of trade rather than risk-transfer which is seen in conventional banking. Islamic banking introduces concepts such as profit sharing (Mudharabah), safekeeping (Wadiah), joint venture (Musharakah), cost plus (Murabahah), and leasing (Ijar). In an Islamic mortgage transaction, instead of lending the buyer money to purchase the item, a bank might buy the item itself from the seller, and re-sell it to the buyer at a profit, while allowing the buyer to pay the bank in installments. However, the bank's profit cannot be made explicit and therefore there are no additional penalties for late payment. In order to protect itself against default, the bank asks for strict collateral. The goods or land is registered to the name of the buyer from the start of the transaction. This arrangement is called Murabahah. Another approach is EIjara wa EIqtina, which is similar to real estate leasing. Islamic banks handle loans for vehicles in a similar way (selling the vehicle at a higher-than-market price to the debtor and then retaining ownership of the vehicle until the loan is paid). An innovative approach applied by some banks for home loans, called Musharaka al-Mutanaqisa, allows for a floating rate in the form of rental. The bank and borrower form a partnership entity, both providing capital at an agreed percentage to purchase the property. The partnership entity then rents out the property to the borrower and charges rent. The bank and the borrower will then share the proceeds from this rent based on the current equity share of the partnership. At the same time, the borrower in the partnership entity also buys the bank's share of the property at agreed installments until the full equity is transferred to the borrower and the partnership is ended. If default occurs, both the bank and the borrower receive a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of the property based on each party's current equity. This method allows for floating rates according to the current market rate such as the BLR (base lending rate), especially in a dual-banking system like in Malaysia. There are several other approaches used in business transactions. Islamic banks lend their money to companies by issuing floating rate interest loans. The floating rate of interest is pegged to the company's individual rate of return. Thus the bank's profit on the loan is equal to a certain percentage of the company's profits. Once the principal amount of the loan is repaid, the profit-sharing arrangement is concluded. This practice is called Musharaka. Further, Mudaraba is venture capital funding of an entrepreneur who provides labor while financing is provided by the bank so that both profit and risk are shared. Such participatory arrangements between capital and labor reflect the Islamic view that the borrower must not bear all the risk/cost of a failure, resulting in a balanced distribution of income and not allowing the lender to monopolize the economy. Islamic banking is restricted to Islamically acceptable transactions, which exclude those involving alcohol, pork, gambling, etc. The aim of this is to engage in only ethical investing, and moral purchasing. The Islamic Banking and Finance Database provides more information on the subject.[31] In theory, Islamic banking is an example of full-reserve banking, with banks achieving a 100% reserve ratio.[32] However, in practice, this is not the case, and no examples of 100 per cent reserve banking are known to exist in practice.[33] The part that cracks me up is how they deal with interest on saving accounts. See this for example: http://www.islamic-bank.com/personal-banking/savings-products/ I'm sure Allah wouldn't approve of such practices: Those who devour usury will not stand except as stands one whom the devil by his touch has driven to madness. That is because they say: Trade is like usury: but Allah has permitted trade and forbidden usury.... Allah will deprive usury of all blessing, but will give increase for deeds of charity, for He loves not any ungrateful sinner.... O you who believe, fear Allah and give up what remains of your demand for usury, if you are indeed believers. If you do it not, take notice of war from Allah and His messenger, but if you repent you shall have your capital sums; deal not unjustly, and you shall not be dealt with unjustly. And if the debtor is in difficulty, grant him time tin it is easy for him to repay. But if you remit it by way of charity, that is best for you if you only knew. [surah al Baqarah, verse 275-280]. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Am I reading the whole islamic loan system wrong or is it all a bit of a fudge so that they can get loans but not call them that? You are reading it right It is interest that is forbidden, the reason being that it puts the person borrowing the money at a severe disadvantage and you should not profit for another person's financial misfortune or financially weaker position The "Islamic" loans/mortgages still end up costing the same, if not more than a regular mortgage, so the borrower is still at a severe disadvantage thus making the "Islamic" mortgage a bit of a sham (I'm no scholar so it is just my humble opinion) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest H09 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Not sure if someone has posted this already but.... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/10/john-terry-ashley-cole-luis-suarez-what-the-papers-say_n_1953706.html http://i.huffpost.com/gen/807580/thumbs/o-NEWCASTLE-WONGA-570.jpg?6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You're chatting absolute jenkem now like, just f***ing put the keyboard away man. Amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
healthyaddiction Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Am I reading the whole islamic loan system wrong or is it all a bit of a fudge so that they can get loans but not call them that? You are reading it right It is interest that is forbidden, the reason being that it puts the person borrowing the money at a severe disadvantage and you should not profit for another person's financial misfortune or financially weaker position The "Islamic" loans/mortgages still end up costing the same, if not more than a regular mortgage, so the borrower is still at a severe disadvantage thus making the "Islamic" mortgage a bit of a sham (I'm no scholar so it is just my humble opinion) So they're rules lawyering God? Personally, if I was God, I'd be pissed off at the plebs trying to outsmart an omniscient being. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 This issue has generated many, many more pages than it should've both on here and in the press. It's such a non-issue. He'll come back, sit down with the club and Wonga and a compromise will be worked out. Payday loans generate enough bad press as it is but can you imagine if the biggest sponsorship deal they've ever been involved in resulted in a club's star striker leaving because he didn't want their name on his shirt? Remember, these are the fuckers that paid money to not have their name on the side of the stadium just so our fan-base wouldn't hate them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 This issue has generated many, many more pages than it should've both on here and in the press. It's such a non-issue. He'll come back, sit down with the club and Wonga and a compromise will be worked out. Payday loans generate enough bad press as it is but can you imagine if the biggest sponsorship deal they've ever been involved in resulted in a club's star striker leaving because he didn't want their name on his shirt? Remember, these are the f***ers that paid money to not have their name on the side of the stadium just so our fan-base wouldn't hate them. that bit at the end made me laugh, so true. Cisse just wants a little puppet version of him in the commericals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I just find the whole thing baffling and rediculously hypocritical. Cisse's a muslim, yeah that's great fair play to him. But i'd bet my left nut he has an accountant working for him who shifts his money through a dozen financial institutions who's business practices are every bit as shady as wonga. But hang a trout, that's ok because they're saving Papiss money and earning him this interest his faith apparently doesn't agree with. Put the shirt on or fuck off, simple as. Well said its not as if they force feed him eat meat against his faith ,so many hypocrites nowadays everywhere and not just Muslims, Cisse needs to understand that wonga also help pay his wages so if your not happy son fuck off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prefabtoon Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 These Bas***d money lenders such as wanka have had there leaflets and Advertising thrown out of northumbria university this week. I refuse to buy the shirt for myself and especially wont let the kids have this shirt. We need to make a stand against this shirt,No shirt sales and ashley will change his sponsers in the future,No money lenders advertisement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 These Bas***d money lenders such as wanka have had there leaflets and Advertising thrown out of northumbria university this week. I refuse to buy the shirt for myself and especially wont let the kids have this shirt. We need to make a stand against this shirt,No shirt sales and ashley will change his sponsers in the future,No money lenders advertisement. Aye the students union wants them banned from every campus. The thing is though mate that loads of people will still go out and buy it regardless of the sponsor, in fact I think there is a good % of our support who would be willing to lend £50 of Wonga in order to buy the shirt. It's not for me, I can't get away with it myself, my views against them are just too strong. Toffs is calling for me I reckon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Lost my shit at 'Jenkem' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Papiss Cissé, Newcastle United Striker, 'Racially Abused By English ... Huffington Post UK-3 minutes agoShare Newcastle United striker Papiss Cissé was allegedly racially abused by an English Defence League group on Facebook. Some of the group's members attacked ... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/14/cisse-racially-abused-edl_n_3440203.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Oh dear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 That Facebook group Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDT Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 That Facebook group Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Papiss Cissé, Newcastle United Striker, 'Racially Abused By English ... Huffington Post UK-3 minutes agoShare Newcastle United striker Papiss Cissé was allegedly racially abused by an English Defence League group on Facebook. Some of the group's members attacked ... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/14/cisse-racially-abused-edl_n_3440203.html What a kernt, coming over here, refusing to advertise our loan sharks. Makes me sick, broken Britian. What complete blinkered morons they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I can't face the stuff the people like EDL say at all, ruins my faith in humanity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matta Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hope to he stays here, but im staying away from all the religious nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I can't face the stuff the people like EDL say at all, ruins my faith in humanity. They really are the bottom end of the gene pool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 In more positive news: SandalsForGoalposts @Sandal4Goalpost 33s GOAL SENEGAL! Papiss Demba Cisse converts the penalty! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 'Won't wear the shirt? You're a cunt Sissy!' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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