James Maddison (now playing for Tottenham Hotspur)

[STM]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I think the bolded is true but at some point 1 & 2 clash and you have to make a decision one way or the other in terms of priorities.

 

WE'll never know how much it would've cost to bring in Botman in January. But we've ended up with a 14m backup stop-gap player for 6 months with little resale value which is not ideal.

 

I agree I think we are prioritising player value over most things - including first team strength. If it was simply a budgetary issue. I would've preferred to keep Burn as first choice and use that £35m for Botman to contribute towards a RW & ST at the right quality point (even if we over pay a little - and we both think c/ £54m for Maddison is fair). But I think they have a valuation issue and our valuation of attackers is so far out of loop with the rest of the market which is frustrating.

 

Yeah I can see your point with valuations. I think that right now they want a "deal" and you think that if we want to be big boys we are going to have to pay the price to get the players we want?

 

I totally agree, I just think 2 things, firstly you are 12 months early on that criticism. In 12 months we should have a big commercial operation in place, sponsorships etc, when this happens quibbling over 5 million or so will seem farcical. Right now, I think we have decided to be cute an concentrate on getting a good base of players in (which goes to your point about Burn), as well as getting those star players when their available for our price.

 

My second point would be that even for the "top" clubs there is scope for stepping away when someone isn't at the value you have set or waiting 6 months before revisiting a target. It can look weak (see Cucarella) or it can look controlled. We are clearly trying to do the latter.

[Jaqen]

1 hour ago, McCormick said:

I’m all for not being taken for mugs in the market but consistently underbidding and then seemingly walking away isn’t the super savvy transfer policy many are saying it is. You just end up buying players lower down on your list. I do however understand that we apparently have a budget so it’s perhaps not massively straightforward.
 

I wholeheartedly believe we’ll make 2 solid, if underwhelming (to some) signings by the end of the window so no reason to panic.

 

For Maddison in particular I think going to a direct rival and taking one of their prize assets away sends a much stronger message than walking away. 

 

[The Prophet]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

This is fair but equally this is a football forum and a James Maddison thread. What else are we meant to talk about in here? The title gives you the headline story. Everyone in here will just discuss ideas and hypothesis.

 

Some people don't like to read criticism of the owners / management. They don't want the fanbase to be ungrateful.

 

 

 

 

Of course we're going to speculate, it's the whole point of the forum. 

 

My point was that, a lot of fan frustration comes when they get emotional about that speculation. In reality, we know so little about our recruitment process, it's best not to take any of it at face value.

 

I'll judge our transfer window by the signings we've made when the windows closes. Not why and how I assume we've made those signings.

 

[Hanshithispantz]

4 minutes ago, Kanji said:

I think it’s a little presumptuous to tier any of the summer targets we’ve officially bid for - not every club who’s working through a rebuild is able to methodically build exact positions and move on accordingly. It’s difficult for normal clubs, and it’s showing it’s even more difficult for a club owned by a sovereign wealth fund that everyone expects to pay above and beyond. 
 

re: Maddison, I get the feeling it’s something we’ve been working on very very very discreetly with his people before feeling now was the time to approach Leicester. 
 

It’s very clear the way transfers are done are through club to agents and then the agents try and give the green light to approach a club. 

This is it. We're trying to grow the squad over the next few windows, this also includes improving players we have (either for resale value, or to bring them up to the level we need for our squad).

 

We're not like City who just need a striker, and to replace their CDM.

[Zero]

I do think the club is right to sort out the defence and midfield first, because they are the keys for keeping possession  

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, STM said:

 

Yeah I can see your point with valuations. I think that right now they want a "deal" and you think that if we want to be big boys we are going to have to pay the price to get the players we want?

 

I totally agree, I just think 2 things, firstly you are 12 months early on that criticism. In 12 months we should have a big commercial operation in place, sponsorships etc, when this happens quibbling over 5 million or so will seem farcical. Right now, I think we have decided to be cute an concentrate on getting a good base of players in (which goes to your point about Burn), as well as getting those star players when their available for our price.

 

My second point would be that even for the "top" clubs there is scope for stepping away when someone isn't at the value you have set or waiting 6 months before revisiting a target. It can look weak (see Cucarella) or it can look controlled. We are clearly trying to do the latter.

I would just like us to be decisive. At the moment we are looking around the market for value. Werner, Harrison, Cornet & JM and others are all available at different price points. Get one in. I don't want us to suffer too much in the first 5GW's. A slow start essentially cost Arsenal a CL place.

 

I think there can be room for criticism at any stage. It's not a permanent marker on the management and leadership which is growing and maturing anyway. Our January window wasn't ideal but it was more than enough to reach our goals. I don't even know the goals for the club this season. I would like us to go for the top 8 and show the footballing world we are progressing and getting better and that our project is real (this helps with signings at all levels and commercial deals).

 

When you step away from (a rumoured) 5 transfers for attacking players - it's not controlled or good management. When I think of City or Liverpool moving on from targets - they either go down a small shortlist or they continue as they are and go back. We are going the Chelsea route, going down a larger list of targets because we desperately need the bodies in.

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Of course we're going to speculate, it's the whole point of the forum. 

 

My point was that, a lot of fan frustration comes when they get emotional about that speculation. In reality, we know so little about our recruitment process, it's best not to take any of it at face value.

 

I'll judge our transfer window by the signings we've made when the windows closes. Not why and how I assume we've made those signings.

 

Who is emotional?

[B-more Mag]

Based on what we can reasonably infer about how the club is approaching the window, given the limited information we have, it seems to me the club is acting pretty consistently with the way it said it would. 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by B-more Mag

[toon25]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

No but I think Maddison is already a contingency route - not one of our primary targets at the beginning of the summer. With other players moving on. The further down the list we go - the less amount of preparation and analysis we would've done. Which means we are more likely to overspend or get in a player without the right skillset or ability (or get nobody).

 

So far we've shown miscalculation for all of our attacking targets. Most of them haven't even moved on or chosen another team - we've just miscalculated what it would cost to secure them.

Bollocks.

[LV]

2 hours ago, sushimonster85 said:

 

Always off on holiday him like.

 

I hope he gets a hole in his inflatable dinghy and whatever way he lies on the beach he can’t quite get comfortable. 

[LV]

2 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Tbh if another significantly higher bid isn’t made then I’ll wonder what this was all about. The reported bids so far are fine as opening bids but had no chance of getting it done.

 

 

 

Just trying our hand I guess, at the price we value him at.

 

I’m glad we’ve had/ are having a go 

[Nine]

I wonder where Maddison stands on this, a little persuasion on his end wouldn’t hurt 

[madras]

2 hours ago, sushimonster85 said:

 

Sports writer, mainly football going on holiday for the opening weekend of the premier league season ? Fuck me that's like a Prime Minister going on Holiday at the start of a pande ....... sigh.

[Happinesstan]

Once the season kicks off his clickbait headlines aren't required as there is actual news to be reported.

[Kid Icarus]

He doesn't even like football 

[Pata]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

But we've ended up with a 14m backup stop-gap player for 6 months with little resale value which is not ideal.

 

 

We need a squad. Getting a good 2nd/3rd choice CB for 14m and low wages for 2.5 years minimum is very decent IMO. Even if he never plays again for us Burn would have to be labelled as a very good signing.

[The College Dropout]

41 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

 

We need a squad. Getting a good 2nd/3rd choice CB for 14m and low wages for 2.5 years minimum is very decent IMO. Even if he never plays again for us Burn would have to be labelled as a very good signing.

With FFP such a scare it's not ideal considering low resale value. 

 

We'v not signed any other players for depth. Had we signed Botman in January - I doubt we would have signed Burn this summer.

 

Tbh I dion't think our transfer issues are specifically budget related. But at the start of the summer I would've prioritised getting a quality RW & ST over CB & GK - if we had a defined budget pool. As i've said i think the issue is more about how we value players.

[timeEd32]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

I would just like us to be decisive. At the moment we are looking around the market for value. Werner, Harrison, Cornet & JM and others are all available at different price points. Get one in. I don't want us to suffer too much in the first 5GW's. A slow start essentially cost Arsenal a CL place.

 

I think there can be room for criticism at any stage. It's not a permanent marker on the management and leadership which is growing and maturing anyway. Our January window wasn't ideal but it was more than enough to reach our goals. I don't even know the goals for the club this season. I would like us to go for the top 8 and show the footballing world we are progressing and getting better and that our project is real (this helps with signings at all levels and commercial deals).

 

When you step away from (a rumoured) 5 transfers for attacking players - it's not controlled or good management. When I think of City or Liverpool moving on from targets - they either go down a small shortlist or they continue as they are and go back. We are going the Chelsea route, going down a larger list of targets because we desperately need the bodies in.

 

I think the bolded bits are where your frustration is coming from and where your expectations are almost certainly not in line with the club's planning. We are not going to make any decisions based on the first month of the season. I don't even think we're going to make any drastic moves based on this season. There is quite obviously a multi-year plan in place (which is great), but it may also have moments of frustration and what looks like a lack of progress. 

 

If you look at things realistically the current squad will likely finish mid-table. Even if Wilson were to get injured we'd be solid enough to not be in a real relegation battle. If everything went as well as it possibly could the squad as is may knock on the top 8. And I don't think you can say any 1-2 players (Maddison included) would have us realistically challenging for the top 4. So, in many ways, it's the perfect season to be patient and to do things with a longer term vision as the priority.

[Gallowgate Toon]

This really should be a fun year for us, tbh. No massive expectations in the league, just make progress & build our style. Would much rather we heavily prioritised the cups.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Gallowgate Toon

[ChrisMcQuillan]

Possibly wishful thinking, however supposedly the initial bid (and presumably rejection) was put to press by Leicester, not us. Newcastle didn't want it public.

 

Might it be possible that if a 3rd bid was in the process of being lodged, or even has been lodged and is being negotiated rather than rejected, Leicester wouldn't put it out there as they don't intend to reject.

 

Just thinking this might be one where it goes quiet before "Agreement reached" gets announced.

 

As I say, probably wishful thinking.

[Stottie]

The correct verdict on our window won't come till Sep 2nd at the earliest. It may come later if we sign an unfancied player Howe then turns around. That's something Bournemouth Howe would do. Brighton under Ashworth would buy players no-one has heard of.

 

There is still lots of time, but as the window draws to a close, selling clubs will become more desperate, and desirable players weighing their options, e.g., Cornet, Tielemans will make their choices. In our case, the option may have been to pay the Saudi tax to get players in early or wait and drive harder bargains. It's easy to forget but we are coming out of a pandemic where clubs lost lots of gameday money.

 

With Liverpool and Man City in the first five games, I see them are free hits where it doesn't matter what happens. For me, it's fine for players to come in as the window closes and for Howe to ease them in as he did with Bruno. The most important thing for the first ten games is to not have stupid expectations that the media will feed on and put Howe under undeserved pressure.

[The College Dropout]

It's in Leicester's interest to start a bidding war. Can't have a private bidding war.

[The College Dropout]

Just now, Stottie said:

The correct verdict on our window won't come till Sep 2nd at the earliest. It may come later if we sign an unfancied player Howe then turns around. That's something Bournemouth Howe would do. Brighton under Ashworth would buy players no-one has heard of.

 

Tbf Brighton are a thoroughly midtable team.

[JonBez comesock]

I know we have a long term plan and I applaud that 

 

However we have to realise we are in a very tough league with lots of teams , with lots of money 

 

Man City , Liverpool , spurs , Chelsea , arsenal , man united will continue to spend and spend big.

 

We can try to catch up but they will always continue to strengthen 

 

All of the teams in Europe / at the top have mega wealthy owners 

 

if you have owners worth 500 billion or 50 billion , it doesn’t really matter.

 

Once you get past 20/30 billion and have ambition that’s enough to attract top top players !!

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by JonBez comesock

[relámpago blanco]

5 minutes ago, ChrisMcQuillan said:

Possibly wishful thinking, however supposedly the initial bid (and presumably rejection) was put to press by Leicester, not us. Newcastle didn't want it public.

 

Might it be possible that if a 3rd bid was in the process of being lodged, or even has been lodged and is being negotiated rather than rejected, Leicester wouldn't put it out there as they don't intend to reject.

 

Just thinking this might be one where it goes quiet before "Agreement reached" gets announced.

 

As I say, probably wishful thinking.

I think Leicester would have released a statement or leaked something if he wasn't getting sold or likely to be sold.