Still still not worthy of a thread

[toon25]

59 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Celebrating anything to do with British industrial history of that era is always going to bring you very close to some very dodgy industries and wealthy families built off colonialism, slavery and exploitation. Definitely not exclusive to Manchester.

 

Celebrating anything to do with industry full stop tbh. It's always built on the back of some sort of exploitation, whether it's visible to the beneficiaries or consumers or not.

[Rafalove]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

But even they did great work for abolition, that wouldn't necessary mean they didn't benefit hugely from slavery and/or the ships aren't slave ships, would it? I don't know the details like, but in principle. 

 

Don’t know if this would be better in a different thread, but you could argue as a counter point Britain has accrued huge debts from abolishing slavery.

 

 

Could be they were just ordinary trade ships but then that would spark an other debate about Britains trading relationship with the people we riled over at the time.

[Disco]

Wes Brown bankrupt

[Dr.Spaceman]

[Kid Icarus]

4 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Celebrating anything to do with British industrial history of that era is always going to bring you very close to some very dodgy industries and wealthy families built off colonialism, slavery and exploitation. Definitely not exclusive to Manchester.

It would be Liberalism 101 if it was a true story mind. Remove the tenuous link to historical slavery that's entirely cosmetic on a badge, piss off and alienate everyone in doing so, but when it comes to the current owners of said clubs being existing slave owners "we need to have that conversation" and nothing more.

[Kid Icarus]

4 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

But even they did great work for abolition, that wouldn't necessary mean they didn't benefit hugely from slavery and/or the ships aren't slave ships, would it? I don't know the details like, but in principle. 

 

This is the "yet you lived in a society" argument surely.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

18 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

This is the "yet you lived in a society" argument surely.

Well, not quite. If the ship is celebrating some industrial history of Manchester that was based on the slave trade, it might be a problematic symbol in the view of some people, even if the city in general then did excellent work on abolition at a later date. 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Kid Icarus]

6 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Well, not quite. If the ship is celebrating some industrial history of Manchester that was based on the slave trade, it might be a problematic symbol in the view of some people, even if the city in general then did excellent work on abolition at a later date. 

 

 

 

I was replying more specifically to your point about the city's abolishonists benefitting on the back of the slave trade. 

 

5 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

But even they did great work for abolition, that wouldn't necessary mean they didn't benefit hugely from slavery and/or the ships aren't slave ships, would it? I don't know the details like, but in principle. 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Oh, I meant ‘they’ as in the city of Manchester or whatever is symbolised by the ship. Not any specific people. 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Kid Icarus]

Ah okay, just confusing because you said they did great work for abolition. I get you now.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[gdm]

Juve have had their 15 point deduction overturned. They move in to 3rd. Farce

 

Edit: oops just noticed the Serie A thread 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by gdm

[Wolfcastle]

You'd never see the PL and FA capitulate like that to say, Spurs.

[Ben]

That's my Blue Peter badge getting chucked in the bin, I used to worship that now racist thing.

[Optimistic Nut]

7 hours ago, Wolfcastle said:

You'd never see the PL and FA capitulate like that to say, Spurs.

 

Kicked out of the FA Cup and 12 points deduction before the 94/95 season. 

 

Finishes the season 7th with no points deducted and in the Semi Final of the FA Cup.

[Dokko]

16 hours ago, Disco said:

Wes Brown bankrupt

 

Sounds like his 'independent' wife rinced him in their divorce after getting sick of him being home all the time when he retired.

 

[Coffee_Johnny]

20 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

But even they did great work for abolition, that wouldn't necessary mean they didn't benefit hugely from slavery and/or the ships aren't slave ships, would it? I don't know the details like, but in principle. 

Black and British by David Olusoga (Geordie!) is a good read, as is Northerners, by Brian Groom. Both cover this. I think the latter in more detail. If you want to find out more, IW. 
From, memory Greater Manchester has a lot to be proud of re the abolition of slavery and reaction to the consequences of the American civil war. Liverpool less so. 

[54]

 

 

 

[gbandit]

I like how other clubs have stepped up their clownshow act after we’ve become a professional outfit. Spurs and Everton especially have put in the hard graft to take our place 

[The Butcher]

 

[LFEE]

Imagine the meltdown 😆

 

 

[Slim]

 

[wormy]

Really can't abide by Jordan now gleefully tossing our club off every chance he gets. 

[Kid Icarus]

It's because he's admitted to losing a bet to Jim White over us finishing in Europe. 

[80]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/manchester-city-fans-anti-racist-badge-slavery

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/21/slave-ship-is-not-a-fitting-symbol-for-manchester

 

More nonexistent statements from nonexistent people backing a nonexistent campaign for people to get upset over nothing about.

[FloydianMag]

On 20/04/2023 at 12:50, toon25 said:

 

Celebrating anything to do with industry full stop tbh. It's always built on the back of some sort of exploitation, whether it's visible to the beneficiaries or consumers or not.

 

11 hours ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

Black and British by David Olusoga (Geordie!) is a good read, as is Northerners, by Brian Groom. Both cover this. I think the latter in more detail. If you want to find out more, IW. 
From, memory Greater Manchester has a lot to be proud of re the abolition of slavery and reaction to the consequences of the American civil war. Liverpool less so. 

 Much more in depth research into slave ownership in the UK.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/